700 vs.750

[SergeantChuck]

I talked to my honda dealer today about the NC750X, and his sources told him they would not be coming to the US. What he did tell me, is that the 2014 version does get an updated HUD and now comes in black.

I wonder if this updated HUD can be installed on an older model NC. I would do it just for the gear indicator and MPG.

I'm not an engineer so take this for what it is worth.

The issue I see with the instrument display from a 2014 working on an earlier model is this. Software. There will be some type of programming of the software that tells the 2014 model to observe and report, lets say, the current gear the bike is in. A 2012-13 model will not have software telling the ECM to look for this output. Therefore it will not be able to report it to the display.

Will Honda modify the current software to allow this in our bikes? My 2007 jeep had an upgrade to the ECM software that allows my being able to permanently turn off the ESP for off-roading purposes. I had to take it in and pay out of my own pocket to get the ECM updated. This was not advertised but it was avaialble.

Is it possible, sure. Likely, who knows?

This is obviously a SWAG on my part.

 

[Roebuck]

I look forward to your thoughts! As a current owner of a PCX, did you sell yours? I use mine to commute to work and local stores. Being a small engine it heats up fast. Running to a store less than 5 minutes away, the big nc engine would never reach operating temperatures. I've got 10,000 miles on my 125cc 2011 PCX. Just replaced the OEM tires. Love that scooter!

Hey OR, yeah I love my PCX too. Feeling pretty emotional in these last few days of owning it (just realised I have no pictures of it so took one this evening, below!) I'm part exchanging - I know it's a bit lazy, but it's got some cosmetic damage where I was hit by a car and I'd have to repair that to get a decent price, so Honda's offer is acceptable. In an ideal world I'd keep it as it's unbeatable for London, uses a thimble-full of petrol and has great storage space. And I can wear work clothes under my poncey leg apron. But for me it was just a leisure runaround, I commute in my car and do 120-160 miles a day. I'm hoping the NC750 will takeover the motorway duties from a rather thirsty 3L twin turbo and save me some money and I would like to get into some touring, having had a little experience so far. Keeping the PCX would be too extravagant, although you raise a good point about short trips. Cracking little machine, sad to see it go.

 

[anglachel]

I'm not an engineer so take this for what it is worth.

The issue I see with the instrument display from a 2014 working on an earlier model is this. Software. There will be some type of programming of the software that tells the 2014 model to observe and report, lets say, the current gear the bike is in. A 2012-13 model will not have software telling the ECM to look for this output. Therefore it will not be able to report it to the display.

Will Honda modify the current software to allow this in our bikes? My 2007 jeep had an upgrade to the ECM software that allows my being able to permanently turn off the ESP for off-roading purposes. I had to take it in and pay out of my own pocket to get the ECM updated. This was not advertised but it was avaialble.

Is it possible, sure. Likely, who knows?

This is obviously a SWAG on my part.

If it works like the aftermarket gear indicators by looking at the RPM and Speed and deducing the gear from there, then it is entirely possible that the calculation is done inside the display itself. After all it has all the inputs for that the engine RPM and the final RPM from the transmission (translated into speed and mileage, possibly right inside the display unit)

If the new model has an actual sensor somewhere in the transmission to detect the gear and our older bikes don't, then new display on the older bikes wouldn't do much.

And of course if the display unit is doing the calculations for the speed and mileage, and the new model is geared differently at all, then the speed and mileage is going to be off if you use the wrong display...

And all that assumes it will even fit without modification to the mounting points and/or electronics.

So ultimately, there is a chance, it depends widely on what else on the bike changed from one model year to the next.

 

[Jelly]

Hi Roebuck,

I too have a 750X on order, it'll be ready for collection on Saturday, (woohoo).

I can confirm that a lot of accessories for the 700 will fit the 750, I have the following being fitted prior to collection,

Heated grips
12v socket
Rad guard
Fenda extenda
Hugger.

I also have a new lid to go with it, the shoei neotec in huge same colour as yours.

 

[SergeantChuck]

If it works like the aftermarket gear indicators by looking at the RPM and Speed and deducing the gear from there, then it is entirely possible that the calculation is done inside the display itself. After all it has all the inputs for that the engine RPM and the final RPM from the transmission (translated into speed and mileage, possibly right inside the display unit)

If the new model has an actual sensor somewhere in the transmission to detect the gear and our older bikes don't, then new display on the older bikes wouldn't do much.

And of course if the display unit is doing the calculations for the speed and mileage, and the new model is geared differently at all, then the speed and mileage is going to be off if you use the wrong display...

And all that assumes it will even fit without modification to the mounting points and/or electronics.

So ultimately, there is a chance, it depends widely on what else on the bike changed from one model year to the next.

That sounds more realistic.

I work on Caterpillar machines and the speedometer information is pulled from the transmission ECM (which is provided by a sensor) and feed through the J1939 communication lines to the display. That is where my guess came from. I really was not sure how it worked on a motorcycle.

 

[wozza]

I've just looked at Honda USA website and the 2014 NC700X does indeed come with enhancements.
Span adjustable lever. Gear indicator and new readout for fuel etc...

 

[Jelly]

I have 1200 miles on my NC750XD DCT now and I'm averaging 68mpg (UK). Half my commute is motorway and half through London traffic. If I ease up on the motorway (max 70mph) my average goes up to around 72mpg. I didn't have the 700 before so can't compare the 2 bikes, but so far I cannot fault the 750 - it does exactlt what I need to do in the way I was hoping it would. Top bike!

Cheers,

Mike.

Hey Mcress, I see that your not too far from me in Sittingbourne, I'm just curious, where did you buy your 750 from?

 

[Roebuck]

Hi Roebuck,

I too have a 750X on order, it'll be ready for collection on Saturday, (woohoo).

I can confirm that a lot of accessories for the 700 will fit the 750, I have the following being fitted prior to collection,

Heated grips
12v socket
Rad guard
Fenda extenda
Hugger.

I also have a new lid to go with it, the shoei neotec in huge same colour as yours.

Cheers buddy, the extras you've mentioned are exactly what I'd like to start with + centre stand, before thinking about luggage etc later on. Hopefully I haven't missed the boat, I'll call dealer tomorrow. Do you mind if I ask how much the extras set you back? I guess fitting the grips, stand or the radiator guard myself would be OK, but less sure of my skills fitting a 12V outlet. I'll have a search to see if anyone's posted up a How To here. Have you used the Neotec yet? I moved up from a cheapo V-Can and I have nothing but praise for it, what a superb helmet. Light, quiet for a modular, amazing ventilation and ideal sunshade mechanism.

 

[n30r3l0ad3d]

I've just looked at Honda USA website and the 2014 NC700X does indeed come with enhancements.
Span adjustable lever. Gear indicator and new readout for fuel etc...

Yep, and those are the only changes with the 2014 model. Still no ABS unless it's a DCT model.

I'm thinking that the new instrument cluster would just plug right in tbh. Honda didn't change anything with the 2014 model, other than what he said above so I highly doubt that they added a sensor just for a new instrument cluster.

 

[Jelly]

The dealer, Kent Motorcycles, gave me 10% of off the price of the accessories and is fitting them for free!

All of them together came to just over £466, the Honda heated grips being a big part of that at £271! Expensive I know but I'm told they are worth it, besides I didn't want to have to do anything to the bike myself at this stage, I wanted it ready to go when I picked it up.

The 12V socket is £57 inc the relay, the rad guard (R&G) is £50, the hugger (Skidmarx) is £120 and the fenda extenda was a score.

As for the neotec, no I've not used one yet.

I wanted to go back to a flip lid and know that Shoei lids fit me well, I have had a Raid II for years and loved it!

Once you have your 750 maybe we'll have to have a ride out together?

 

[Roebuck]

Once you have your 750 maybe we'll have to have a ride out together?

Sure mate, sounds good. I'm in West London temporarily, but might be moving out to Cambridge. I'm sure there are some nice roads in Kent? I don't know it well, but in my days of youthful folly I used to love trying to drift around that epic turn from the M25 to the A21! I can confidently say I'm delighted I did not start riding in my 20s, I would certainly be dead.

 

[bikerguy]

I've just looked at Honda USA website and the 2014 NC700X does indeed come with enhancements.
Span adjustable lever. Gear indicator and new readout for fuel etc...

I would think you could program a gear indicator into older versions, my 2013 has the readout in the dash for the gear indicator already.

 

[FrankQC]

I would think you could program a gear indicator into older versions, my 2013 has the readout in the dash for the gear indicator already.

No, sorry. The "old" manual version only has a neutral switch, nothing else. The bike doesn't have a clue in which gear you're riding. The dash is shared between the manual / DCT, that's the reason why you see the dimmed "8" in there.

 

[Fuzzy]

No, sorry. The "old" manual version only has a neutral switch, nothing else. The bike doesn't have a clue in which gear you're riding. The dash is shared between the manual / DCT, that's the reason why you see the dimmed "8" in there.

Aftermarket systems simply calculate gear from rpm and speed. Not hard to program ECU to do the same.

 

[wozza]

I have a 750S DCT and I love it. I also owned a 700X DCT
before that. I think the differences between the DCT models is greater then on the manual as the DCT gearbox has been reprogrammed to give a more flexible ride.
There definitely is a power difference with my 750s feeling more grunty than the 700. One or two people have commented on high frequency vibes. Indeed I noticed this a bit in my right hand foot peg, but as I've done a few more miles the vibes are getting less.
I love my new machine and i will certainly be keeping it for longer than the 700. I might post a small vid I've done on youtube later when I get to a computer.

 

[SergeantChuck]

I would think you could program a gear indicator into older versions, my 2013 has the readout in the dash for the gear indicator already.

I’m pretty sure this has been talked about in the past but I could not find the thread. Two things come to mind when I think about this. Granted I could be completely off base because I deal with dash clusters for heavy equipment. There is a display in the Caterpillar equipment I work on that is the same size or smaller than our dash. It displays much more info than our dash and it is considered an ECM (ECU). Over the years as things on the machine change the software is updated/modified to meet system requirements. At some point a change will be made and a software fix will not supply the needed results. Therefore a hardware change is made. The physical looks of the display are identical in many cases but the hardware inside is different. For example the LCD. The current dash on the NC700X has an area to the right of the speed indicator and from what is said is used for the DCT model (I've never seen a DCT). I'm not sure what characters are displayed there but it may or may not have what would be required to list the gears 1 thru 6. This could be one possible problem with only doing a software upgrade. The LCD may not have backlights to display the needed numbers. Since there is a subdued 8 there I would think it does.

My second thought ties in with the first. The needed information to calculate the gear will come from a sensor (or two). The sensor MAY be in place and the needed info from the sensor MAY be available so the software could tell that to be reported to the dash which COULD light the proper number. The proper sensor may also not be there.

Again, I have no idea if the manual version of our bike has the needed hardware to allow reporting of the current gear and it obviously does not have the software. One way to know for sure would be to look at the part number on a pre-2014 dash and compare it to a 2014 dash. If the part number has changed or the EC level has changed there has been some hardware modification/firmware to the internals of the dash. That would most likely mean Honda changed it to make it work.

Last point. If it can be done someone will do it. It's just a matter of time. Someone will find a dash from a wrecked NC750 (hope that don't happen) and they will take there bike to a dealer to get it flashed. If it is possible someone will try it.

 

[StratTuner]

the 750 is NOT enough different to justify the expense of switching. The increase in HP would have to double for it to matter much.

 

[StratTuner]

Aftermarket systems simply calculate gear from rpm and speed. Not hard to program ECU to do the same.

Now there's a mod I'd like to see! It seems a waste that the display could show me what gear I'm in but doesn't.... I wonder if the indicator is just turned "OFF" in software or if the manual bike just doesn't have the sensor that informs the digital gear indicator.

 

[wozza]

Only one NC750 is currently showing data on Fuelly. It's averaging 57.9 miles/US gal.

I certainly wouldn't go by one bike. My 750S is averaging over 76mpg (imperial) which is slightly better than my 700X. I have obtained 79.6 on one run even though I run this bike slightly harder than I did my 700x.

 

[Fuzzy]

Again, I have no idea if the manual version of our bike has the needed hardware to allow reporting of the current gear and it obviously does not have the software. One way to know for sure would be to look at the part number on a pre-2014 dash and compare it to a 2014 dash. If the part number has changed or the EC level has changed there has been some hardware modification/firmware to the internals of the dash. That would most likely mean Honda changed it to make it work.

It does have the hardware. Aftermarket systems just plug in and learn from the bike going through the gears.

Don't know if the display is set up for the ECU to put it on the dash.