Oil filter again?

[Honda333]

Glad to see this thread. I have a NIB Pure One- purolator oil filter left over from my wife’s CRV we traded in. Now I will have a use for it instead of giving it away. Hey, where’s all the forum oil threads ?.... ( Lol).

 

[Therapy]

I had particular analyses called particle counts run on the used oil and on the remaining new from one of the bottles I'd filled the bike with. The used oil had considerably fewer particles of all analyzed sizes (a range of sizes that are the sizes that cause essentially all engine wear) in it than the new had. What that basically means is that the Tough Gard 7317 is a _very_ good filter, and the Ultra is an even better filter than that.

OK, thanks.
That is crazy, right?

 

[MZ5]

I was pleased. (-:

I have been in contact with a (former?) Fram tech person in the past, and my conversations with that person caused me to wonder if it would be this way.

There are a couple of things I've come to accept as fact, based on data I've either generated myself over the years, or come across:
1) New oil is surprisingly 'dirty' from most marketers, and
2) The motorcycle oil filters from everyone I've found do not seem to have any sort of focus on good filtration.

 

[GregC]

I’d add:

(3) most modern internal combustion engines don’t seem to care much about how clean the oil is - at least for the projected time most folks have them.

Don’t get me wrong, I change oil religiously and use quality parts, but realistically it seems most modern engines will go a long time with minimal maintenance, including oil changes.

There was some thread about a new synthetic that said never change the oil again - just add when low.

I know my ancient Honda mower hasn’t had an oil change in years [emoji15]


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[rippin209]

I’d add:

(3) most modern internal combustion engines don’t seem to care much about how clean the oil is - at least for the projected time most folks have them.

Don’t get me wrong, I change oil religiously and use quality parts, but realistically it seems most modern engines will go a long time with minimal maintenance, including oil changes.

There was some thread about a new synthetic that said never change the oil again - just add when low.

I know my ancient Honda mower hasn’t had an oil change in years [emoji15]


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I think the quality (or water content) of gas now days contributes to that longevity.

New a guy that bragged about only changing the oil in his little ford ranger (early 90's 4 cylinder) 1 time, only added oil when needed, which wasn't often. The engine lasted over 230,000 miles which is made even more impressive by the fact that was almost entirely city miles.

Engine blew up, the oil looked like road tar, truck would have lasted him twice as long had he changed the oil a couple dozen times

 

[670cc]

I was pleased. (-:

I have been in contact with a (former?) Fram tech person in the past, and my conversations with that person caused me to wonder if it would be this way.

There are a couple of things I've come to accept as fact, based on data I've either generated myself over the years, or come across:
1) New oil is surprisingly 'dirty' from most marketers, and
2) The motorcycle oil filters from everyone I've found do not seem to have any sort of focus on good filtration.

Some Honda scooter engines don’t even have oil filters (three of mine are that way). Honda doesn’t seem too worried about “dirty” new oil or about filtering it. My Honda lawn mower has no oil filter and it’s entering it’s 35th year of successful operation, albeit with regular oil changes.

Honda recommended oil filter change intervals are lengthening. The NC is now at 16,000 miles and my Honda SUT is somewhere around 18-19,000 miles oil filter change interval.

 

[MZ5]

The data do not support the fallacious notion that engines (and gearboxes) "don't care how clean the oil is." Do not confuse a particle count with what some of you know as a used oil analysis. A particle count is a completely different thing. There's plenty of solid, published work on particulate contamination vs. wear, and clean is much better than dirty. Particulate contamination may come from many places (clutch plate debris, garbage coming in through the intake, contamination in new oil, contamination in fuel...), and minimizing it has a real impact on total wear.

Remember that a manufacturer has a vested financial interest in your vehicle _not_ lasting forever. It just has to last _long enough_ that you're not too ticked off about it, and to not make you spend an offensively large amount on routine maintenance.

 

[dduelin]

Some Honda scooter engines don’t even have oil filters (three of mine are that way). Honda doesn’t seem too worried about “dirty” new oil or about filtering it. My Honda lawn mower has no oil filter and it’s entering it’s 35th year of successful operation, albeit with regular oil changes.

Honda recommended oil change intervals are lengthening. The NC is now at 16,000 miles and my Honda SUT is somewhere around 18-19,000 miles oil filter change interval.

16,000 mile oil change interval? I know the NC valve check was lengthened to 16,000 but the oil change too?

 

[670cc]

16,000 mile oil change interval? I know the NC valve check was lengthened to 16,000 but the oil change too?

My mistake. I omitted the word filter, so I’ve since corrected my post. The oil filter change went to 16,000 miles on the schedule for later model years. I don’t know exactly when the schedule changed; perhaps it was 2016. The oil change remains at 8000 mile intervals.

 

[dduelin]

My mistake. I omitted the word filter, so I’ve since corrected my post. The oil filter change went to 16,000 miles on the schedule for later model years. I don’t know exactly when the schedule changed; perhaps it was 2016. The oil change remains at 8000 mile intervals.

Ok that makes sense. My 2017 Accord maintenance minder did not indicate an oil change needed until nearly 12,000 miles. It's hard to trust that advice but Honda has a lot more riding on their reputation than I do.

I still cannot bring myself to go more than 6000 miles on the motorcycle OCIs. I did 6500 once but it was on a trans continental ride.

 

[b_rubenstein]

The maintenance minder in all probability has access to data from the ECU and takes into account the load placed on the engine in determining % of oil life left.

A while back I was curious to see what Honda OCI and oil called for the CBR600RR (14k redline and high HP/displacement engine), and downloaded the Owners Manual for it (can't seem to do that anymore from Honda): 10w-30 oil / 8,000 mile changes. Honda dyno's the crap out of engines under heavy load to verify reliability.

 

[Therapy]

Wow!
Thanks for all the info about oil. Very interesting stuff.

 

[DirtFlier]

Eons ago Motorcycle Consumer News (MCN) did an oil filter comparison which included cutting the filters with a band saw to have a look inside. I believe the folded material inside the metal can is called "the media" and they found that many of the taller filters had the same height media as the shorter ones, so what appears to be much greater oil filtering capability turns out to be nothing.

 

[Doc True]

Eons ago Motorcycle Consumer News (MCN) did an oil filter comparison which included cutting the filters with a band saw to have a look inside. I believe the folded material inside the metal can is called "the media" and they found that many of the taller filters had the same height media as the shorter ones, so what appears to be much greater oil filtering capability turns out to be nothing.

It looks like someone with a band saw has an assignment.

 

[b_rubenstein]

Eons ago Motorcycle Consumer News (MCN) did an oil filter comparison which included cutting the filters with a band saw to have a look inside. I believe the folded material inside the metal can is called "the media" and they found that many of the taller filters had the same height media as the shorter ones, so what appears to be much greater oil filtering capability turns out to be nothing.

This has as much useful, factual information as a Whitehouse Twitter post.

 

[Deleted member 4929]

Eons ago Motorcycle Consumer News (MCN) did an oil filter comparison which included cutting the filters with a band saw to have a look inside. I believe the folded material inside the metal can is called "the media" and they found that many of the taller filters had the same height media as the shorter ones, so what appears to be much greater oil filtering capability turns out to be nothing.

I remember that also, along with their oil articles.

Two articles that are at least as scientific as anything ever presented here that led me to use Purolator Pure One filters on my Hondas:
Motorcycle Oil Filters and Air Filters
Engine Oil Filter Study

Fram has been consistently found to be a substandard filter. Has that changed? Perhaps. Not testing on my MCs and autos however.
AND the Pure Ones I have purchased say made in USA.

 

[Therapy]

I remember that also, along with their oil articles.

Two articles that are at least as scientific as anything ever presented here that led me to use Purolator Pure One filters on my Hondas:
Motorcycle Oil Filters and Air Filters
Engine Oil Filter Study

Fram has been consistently found to be a substandard filter. Has that changed? Perhaps. Not testing on my MCs and autos however.
AND the Pure Ones I have purchased say made in USA.

Hmmm. Maybe I should change....

 

[Therapy]

And now my Popular Mechanics Winter 2018/19 issue has an article from someone that used a Honda engine driven lawn mower for 10 years (no info on hours/usage/abusage) and never changed the oil. Then had it tested and it tested well, still having TBN of 5.0, whatever that means.
Oh so many truths we grew up with might have been "all about the money" just like they are today. Free will - what is that really?

 

[Madison Sully]

And now my Popular Mechanics Winter 2018/19 issue has an article from someone that used a Honda engine driven lawn mower for 10 years (no info on hours/usage/abusage) and never changed the oil. Then had it tested and it tested well, still having TBN of 5.0, whatever that means.
Oh so many truths we grew up with might have been "all about the money" just like they are today. Free will - what is that really?

TBN = Total Base Number. A relative quantification (!) of how much more acidic residues can be absorbed by the oil before it becomes corrosive.

 

[Deleted member 4929]

Short course: (TBN discussion in Part 2)

Oils Well That Ends Well, Part 1 | Sport Rider

Finding the Best Motorcycle Oil: Part 2 | Sport Rider