This is killing me

[670cc]

My Lincoln Navigator has that annoying oil change reminder too like I am too dumb to know when to change it. To keep it simple I change all my oils a 5k miles and go by the miles on the speedo. 130k, 135, 140, 145 etc............very simple.

Not trying to be mean, but people probably are too dumb to know when to change the oil, because they can’t know the actual condition of the oil. My Honda Ridgeline has a maintenance minder that takes into account the operational factors of the engine and vehicle. Honda spent some effort in developing it. Basing the oil change on the engine’s actual operation makes a more sense and is more accurate than following a flat mileage interval. I’d guess a short 5K mileage based interval wastes a lot of time and oil, compared to what is really needed. Typical oil change interval on our three vehicles ranges from 8,500 to 10,000 miles, following their minders. Change the oil when the vehicle calls for it . . . very simple.

According to Honda:

The Maintenance Minder System uses the on-board computer to continuously monitor engine operating conditions such as speed, engine temperature, ambient temperature, time, and vehicle use to determine when an oil change and regular maintenance is necessary.​

Here is the summary from Honda’s R&D paper on the subject:

Summary​

An oil deterioration monitoring system has been developed to enable the necessary intervals between oil changes to be judged with greater accuracy. The system calculates oil life using an oil deterioration algorithm. When the figure reaches a predetermined value, the meter displays a recommendation for oil change. The algorithm first estimates oil temperature, a parameter of the oil deterioration coefficient. The coefficient and engine speed are then used to calculate how much of the oil’s usable life has been expended. The oil deterioration coefficient, which is dependent on oil temperature, was found from oil life in endurance tests conducted with oil at differing average temperatures. A market survey was conducted to verify the applicability of the measure to a variety of driving modes, and results were reflected in calculations of oil life. It has been demonstrated that this system is successful in enabling U.S. users to change their oil at more appropriate intervals.

 

[Bcsmith]

I got back home today from a 165 mile ride and my bike has 7,741 miles on the current oil and filter. When I changed it last in May of 2022 I told myself I would try to go the full 8,000 miles before changing it. I have had the new oil and filters (DCT filter will be changed this time) for a while just waiting for 8,000 to arrive. I used to change the NC's oil around 5,000 or 6,000 miles but I've gradually increased the mileage interval and now this is the longest I've gone. It's supposed to rain tomorrow so maybe after church I'll do it anyway. What's 259 miles?

So just wondering about my oil changes. Up here in Canada I only get maybe six months of riding and I do not get to the 8000 mile mark probably closer to 4000 but I take bike in every fall for annual servicing including oil change. It’s always ready to go on in the spring that way. I just wondering if oil life is shortened by the calendar??? I know a lot of changes are recommended by milage or time intervals.

 

[670cc]

So just wondering about my oil changes. Up here in Canada I only get maybe six months of riding and I do not get to the 8000 mile mark probably closer to 4000 but I take bike in every fall for annual servicing including oil change. It’s always ready to go on in the spring that way. I just wondering if oil life is shortened by the calendar??? I know a lot of changes are recommended by milage or time intervals.

I can only advise that you follow the owner’s manual in regards to the annual oil change.

I do not generally change engine oil annually. I go by mileage, unless the oil gets to be about 3-5 years old (an arbitrarily chosen interval on my part). I have given this subject considerable thought. My reasoning would drag this thread out unnecessarily, but one small reason is that I can’t find a scientific basis for the earth‘s orbit around the sun being a universally applicable factor for determining useful oil life.

 

[dduelin]

I can only advise that you follow the owner’s manual in regards to the annual oil change.

I do not generally change engine oil annually. I go by mileage, unless the oil gets to be about 3-5 years old (an arbitrarily chosen interval on my part). I have given this subject considerable thought. My reasoning would drag this thread out unnecessarily, but one small reason is that I can’t find a scientific basis for the earth‘s orbit around the sun being a universally applicable factor for determining useful oil life.

The reason commonly given is that if an engine is laid up in cool weather it is susceptible to introducing moisture into the oil from condensation. Unheated garages and such. Oil becomes acidic with use and the moisture + condensates may introduce corrosion on internal engine surfaces. I would assume that you run the engines enough in the spring to boil off any moisture that might have accumulated so we aren't talking about moisture accumulating year over year over year.

Not trying to be mean, but people probably are too dumb to know when to change the oil, because they can’t know the actual condition of the oil. My Honda Ridgeline has a maintenance minder that takes into account the operational factors of the engine and vehicle. Honda spent some effort in developing it. Basing the oil change on the engine’s actual operation makes a more sense and is more accurate than following a flat mileage interval. I’d guess a short 5K mileage based interval wastes a lot of time and oil, compared to what is really needed. Typical oil change interval on our three vehicles ranges from 8,500 to 10,000 miles, following their minders. Change the oil when the vehicle calls for it . . . very simple.

According to Honda:

The Maintenance Minder System uses the on-board computer to continuously monitor engine operating conditions such as speed, engine temperature, ambient temperature, time, and vehicle use to determine when an oil change and regular maintenance is necessary.​

Here is the summary from Honda’s R&D paper on the subject:

Summary​

An oil deterioration monitoring system has been developed to enable the necessary intervals between oil changes to be judged with greater accuracy. The system calculates oil life using an oil deterioration algorithm. When the figure reaches a predetermined value, the meter displays a recommendation for oil change. The algorithm first estimates oil temperature, a parameter of the oil deterioration coefficient. The coefficient and engine speed are then used to calculate how much of the oil’s usable life has been expended. The oil deterioration coefficient, which is dependent on oil temperature, was found from oil life in endurance tests conducted with oil at differing average temperatures. A market survey was conducted to verify the applicability of the measure to a variety of driving modes, and results were reflected in calculations of oil life. It has been demonstrated that this system is successful in enabling U.S. users to change their oil at more appropriate intervals.

I would assume it's safe to say that people don't always use the recommended oil either in regards to your dumb people comment. The maintenance minder doesn't test the oil it simple records the parameters mentioned and calculates remaining life. If less than optimal oil is used the maintenance minder won't know that. I have the same system in my Honda Fit and based on 50% oil life the oil wouldn't be changed until 12 or 13,000 miles. I use a brand name mineral oil base 5w20 as recommended and I am not comfortable with that interval so I change it around 6000 miles.

It is worth noting in the Honda owner's manual maintenance minder section it footnotes to change the oil after one year regardless of life remaining on the display.

 

[670cc]

The reason commonly given is that if an engine is laid up in cool weather it is susceptible to introducing moisture into the oil from condensation. Unheated garages and such. Oil becomes acidic with use and the moisture + condensates may introduce corrosion on internal engine surfaces. I would assume that you run the engines enough in the spring to boil off any moisture that might have accumulated so we aren't talking about moisture accumulating year over year over year.

I would assume it's safe to say that people don't always use the recommended oil either in regards to your dumb people comment. The maintenance minder doesn't test the oil it simple records the parameters mentioned and calculates remaining life. If less than optimal oil is used the maintenance minder won't know that. I have the same system in my Honda Fit and based on 50% oil life the oil wouldn't be changed until 12 or 13,000 miles. I use a brand name mineral oil base 5w20 as recommended and I am not comfortable with that interval so I change it around 6000 miles.

It is worth noting in the Honda owner's manual maintenance minder section it footnotes to change the oil after one year regardless of life remaining on the display.

On the Ridgeline, if you chose to change the oil at the one year mark, prior to the oil life monitor reaching 15%, you may then have to scrap Honda’s wonderful oil monitoring system for the time being. If you the reset the maintenance minder before the 15%, any other maintenance tasks that might have been due, such as transmission oil, rear axle oil, coolant, air filter, spark plugs, timing belt change, etc, will never display on the minder at the correct time. If you chose not to reset the minder, your other tasks will be tracked correctly, but you can then either throw in another oil change between 0 and 15%, or you are now on your own to track oil change intervals manually, independent of the minder’s wonderful programming. The oil change task and all the other maintenace tasks can not be acknowledged and reset independantly

My take on all of it is the Ridgeline’s maintenance minder is really king. Someone at Honda probably said to throw the one year maximum into the owner’s manual as a CYA afterthought. If the one year maximum was really important, they could and should have incorporated it into the minder’s programming. How difficult would it be to put a calendar into the computer?

I thought I would send my oil in for analysis, say to Blackstone, to have them tell me how much life is left in the oil. It turns out they are not capable of doing so.

I realize we should be talking about the NC motorcycle line here, but my experience with other products has also had an influence on my whole annual oil change thought process. I believe I understand the conditions by which a blanket, universal, one-size-fits-all one year change interval might be recommended by a manufacturer, but my engine usages for the most part do not qualify under those conditions. I don’t want to muddy up the thread anymore, so again, I can only advise everyone else to just follow the owner’s manual.

 

[Capt.Chaos]

FWIW in the piston airplane community there is a saying - "oil cheap, engines expensive". I personally ignore the oil monitors in my cars for the same reason I ignore the automakers claim that the transmission fluid is good for the life of the car...maybe they mean until the warranty expires!

 

[MZ5]

GM did the heavy lifting to pioneer oil life calculators (monitors). Honda's system and the engineering behind it may (or may not) be somewhat less complex, but they're based on the same concepts and factors. GM, at least, used oil that met minimum API specs for their engineering validation work on their OLM. As I recall, Honda did, too, but I may have forgotten some weasel wording in Honda's literature on the topic (I also have a Ridgeline, and spent some time investigating the system). The point is that the OLMs used bare-minimum-quality (min spec) oils to come up with their algorithms. You can't get an oil that's lower quality than what they based everything on unless you use an oil that doesn't meet API spec (like some non-detergent 30-grade, for example). Any better-quality oil will last at least as long as the OLMs calculate.

FWIW, you can get Honda's maintenance minder to tell you what (else) to change at any time by going through the code-reading process outlined in the manual. So, no fear of 'missing' other required service by changing early, so long as you hold the buttons and make the system show you what else needs done.

 

[750dct]

Not trying to be mean, but people probably are too dumb to know when to change the oil, because they can’t know the actual condition of the oil. My Honda Ridgeline has a maintenance minder that takes into account the operational factors of the engine and vehicle. Honda spent some effort in developing it. Basing the oil change on the engine’s actual operation makes a more sense and is more accurate than following a flat mileage interval. I’d guess a short 5K mileage based interval wastes a lot of time and oil, compared to what is really needed. Typical oil change interval on our three vehicles ranges from 8,500 to 10,000 miles, following their minders. Change the oil when the vehicle calls for it . . . very simple.

According to Honda:

The Maintenance Minder System uses the on-board computer to continuously monitor engine operating conditions such as speed, engine temperature, ambient temperature, time, and vehicle use to determine when an oil change and regular maintenance is necessary.​

Here is the summary from Honda’s R&D paper on the subject:

Summary​

An oil deterioration monitoring system has been developed to enable the necessary intervals between oil changes to be judged with greater accuracy. The system calculates oil life using an oil deterioration algorithm. When the figure reaches a predetermined value, the meter displays a recommendation for oil change. The algorithm first estimates oil temperature, a parameter of the oil deterioration coefficient. The coefficient and engine speed are then used to calculate how much of the oil’s usable life has been expended. The oil deterioration coefficient, which is dependent on oil temperature, was found from oil life in endurance tests conducted with oil at differing average temperatures. A market survey was conducted to verify the applicability of the measure to a variety of driving modes, and results were reflected in calculations of oil life. It has been demonstrated that this system is successful in enabling U.S. users to change their oil at more appropriate intervals.

If I listened to my Lincoln Navigator reminder, I would have to change it every 3,000 miles. All the oil change shops around here recommend 3k miles, but the factories said 5k miles as a general rule for many years. I will still stick to my 5k change interval. The Navigator is easy to change anyway............

 

[670cc]

FWIW, you can get Honda's maintenance minder to tell you what (else) to change at any time by going through the code-reading process outlined in the manual. So, no fear of 'missing' other required service by changing early, so long as you hold the buttons and make the system show you what else needs done.

We can take this to private message, since it is outside the subject of the thread. See PM.