Gear shifting up not smooth after cleaning/lubing the chain and changing the oil

[randomkp]

Hi guys, new member and a new owner, so I apologize if this is not the right place to post.

I have a 2023 750X DCT and this is my first bike. I recently did my first oil change at 600 miles and I cleaned and lubed the chain. I used honda parts (filters, oil) and Pro Honda Lube Cleaner and the grunge brush to clean the chain. Lubed it with the Honda chain lube with molly.
After doing that I've noticed more jerking when the gear shifts up (especially going from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd), downshifting is ok. I suspected the chain, so I checked the chain slack (it's around 30mm) and looked at sprockets, but they seem fine. I wonder if I maybe damaged the O rings with the grunge brush?
It's a little bit colder right now around 30F and I only take it for short rides, under 5miles, not sure if that has anything to do it. I didn't notice this much jerking before, but also not sure how much of it is normal?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[670cc]

Welcome to the forum, and welcome to the motorcycle riding world.

I cannot explain any perception of gear change smoothness, but I was alarmed about what you wrote on chain maintenance. It is possibly that cold, thick oil is making the shifting a bit harsh.

First, throw the grunge brush in the trash, and then greatly reduce the frequency of chain cleaning. Or, don’t clean it at all. Agressive cleaning is a sure way to shorten the life of a chain. It should need no cleaning for the first 5000 miles, and perhaps not even ever, depending on the type of lube you use and application method. We had a member here once with an impeccably clean chain, wondering why the chain’s o-rings were destroyed at 3000 miles. Over cleaning damaged the chain severely.

It makes a difference whether you checked chain slack on the side stand or a center stand (if you have one), but either way, 30mm is too tight. I suggest you set slack to the loose end of the spec. A loose chain is a happy chain.

Frankly, the easiest way to put it is the less you mess with the chain, the more miles you’ll get out of it. A mildly maintained chain can last 20,000 miles, although Honda uses a cheap chain on new bikes so you may get only 10,000 -12,000 miles out it.

My original rear sprocket still looked good at 60,000 miles, but I changed it anyway. You have a long way to go before worrying about sprocket condition.

 

[randomkp]

Thank you this helps a lot. The grunge brush is going in the trash and I'll stop cleaning the chain. I'm still new to this so a lot it is trial and error after reading posts and watching videos.

I measured the 30mm slack on the center stand. In the owners manual I saw that the slack should be 25-35mm, so I assumed that 30mm should be ok. I'll try loosening the chain a little bit and see if that helps with shifting smoothness.

Thank you!

 

[lootzyan]

...so I assumed that 30mm should be ok. I'll try loosening the chain a little bit...

Don't change it. I think that 30 mm chain slack is a good setting, especially at low temperatures when the thickened grease gives more resistance. It also depends a lot on how strongly the chain was tensioned during the measurement. This can vary by even more than 5 mm between many different people.
With the chain slack set to normal, I don't think it would be noticeable when changing gears. Moreover, in DCT the gear is changed before the clutch is engaged. The engine RPM is adjusted by the PCM. I never felt the moment of changing gears. At low speeds, noise from the DCT can be heard when the gear is changed, but this does not affect the movement of the motorcycle.
If the gear change is noticeable, I think that the DCT system diagnostics would be required at the dealer.

 

[670cc]

Thank you this helps a lot. The grunge brush is going in the trash and I'll stop cleaning the chain. I'm still new to this so a lot it is trial and error after reading posts and watching videos.

I measured the 30mm slack on the center stand. In the owners manual I saw that the slack should be 25-35mm, so I assumed that 30mm should be ok. I'll try loosening the chain a little bit and see if that helps with shifting smoothness.

Thank you.

The Honda spec for chain slack is when measured on the sidestand. Honda does not list a spec for chain slack measured on the center stand because the center stand is an optional accessory. Chain tension varies with the swingarm angle, because the front sprocket and the swingarm pivot are not concentric. The swing arm angles lower when the bike is on the center stand. A consensus of this group, if there is such a thing, is that from experimentation and measurement, the appropriate slack range for center stand measurement is 5mm more than for side stand. Thus, target slack for center stand measurement is 30-40 mm.

In my 11.5 years experince with the NC700X, 30 mm slack resulted in a noisy, singing chain that wears too quickly. While technically your 30 mm is in spec, I set mine more towards 40 mm. I’ll then generally allow it to loosen over time until I can press it up against the swingarm bottom at midpoint. Then I readjust.

I doubt your chain slack has anything to do with shift smoothness.

 

[randomkp]

I'll try to drive the bike a little bit more this weekend, if the time allows, to see if that's going to change something. If not, seem my next trip will have to be to the dealer.

Thank you both.

 

[mzflorida]

Hi guys, new member and a new owner, so I apologize if this is not the right place to post.

I have a 2023 750X DCT and this is my first bike. I recently did my first oil change at 600 miles and I cleaned and lubed the chain. I used honda parts (filters, oil) and Pro Honda Lube Cleaner and the grunge brush to clean the chain. Lubed it with the Honda chain lube with molly.
After doing that I've noticed more jerking when the gear shifts up (especially going from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd), downshifting is ok. I suspected the chain, so I checked the chain slack (it's around 30mm) and looked at sprockets, but they seem fine. I wonder if I maybe damaged the O rings with the grunge brush?
It's a little bit colder right now around 30F and I only take it for short rides, under 5miles, not sure if that has anything to do it. I didn't notice this much jerking before, but also not sure how much of it is normal?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

I am not trying to start an oil thread by any means. But what specific oil did you add to the crankcase? The reason I ask is that the standard is JASO T903 Standard MA. Incorrect oil may cause the issue you are feeling.

 

[670cc]

I am not trying to start an oil thread by any means. But what specific oil did you add to the crankcase? The reason I ask is that the standard is JASO T903 Standard MA. Incorrect oil may cause the issue you are feeling.

Thanks for bringing that up. I considered the oil type as a possible cause of troubles, but as the OP used Honda parts, I expected it was a JASO T903 MA oil. (I don’t know that Honda sells any other in the powersports line). We’ll see if randomkp responds.

 

[dduelin]

Thanks for bringing that up. I considered the oil type as a possible cause of troubles, but as the OP used Honda parts, I expected it was a JASO T903 MA oil. (I don’t know that Honda sells any other in the powersports line). We’ll see if randomkp responds.

I read right past the mention of oil change in the original post. Honda still sells semi synthetic blend HP4M that is not for use in wet clutch street bikes. It contains friction additives in levels not compatible with wet clutches so it carries JASO MB instead of MA. It's for scooters and ATVs with belt drive transmissions that do not have a traditional wet clutch.

 

[randomkp]

I've used the Honda GN4 10w30

 

[670cc]

I've used the Honda GN4 10w30

Good. That is a recommended oil for your bike.

 

[Joppi]

Hi guys, new member and a new owner, so I apologize if this is not the right place to post.

I have a 2023 750X DCT and this is my first bike. I recently did my first oil change at 600 miles and I cleaned and lubed the chain. I used honda parts (filters, oil) and Pro Honda Lube Cleaner and the grunge brush to clean the chain. Lubed it with the Honda chain lube with molly.
After doing that I've noticed more jerking when the gear shifts up (especially going from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd), downshifting is ok. I suspected the chain, so I checked the chain slack (it's around 30mm) and looked at sprockets, but they seem fine. I wonder if I maybe damaged the O rings with the grunge brush?
It's a little bit colder right now around 30F and I only take it for short rides, under 5miles, not sure if that has anything to do it. I didn't notice this much jerking before, but also not sure how much of it is normal?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

Reset DCT clutch

 

[randomkp]

Just tried this morning following the instructions in this video

and that fixed it. Shifting is now very smooth. Can't believe it was this easy. Thank you Joppi.

 

[670cc]

Just tried this morning following the instructions in this video

and that fixed it. Shifting is now very smooth. Can't believe it was this easy. Thank you Joppi.

I’m glad you got it fixed and that it was easy.

I’m surprised at how unstable the Honda DCT product is that it would need a re-calibration performed at such a low mileage. It was my understanding that Honda recommends this procedure only after a clutch parts replacement has been done.

 

[the Ferret]

My 2021 hasn't been done in 40,000 miles

 

[dduelin]

I’m glad you got it fixed and that it was easy.

I’m surprised at how unstable the Honda DCT product is that it would need a re-calibration performed at such a low mileage. It was my understanding that Honda recommends this procedure only after a clutch parts replacement has been done.

How many NC clutches have you replaced? One more than probably 99% of DCT owners.

I’ve done a DCT reset two or three times in about 60,000 miles. It’s mostly placebo in my opinion but since it takes all of 30 seconds it doesn’t hurt anything.

 

[randomkp]

I'm also surprised that I had to do this when the bike is practically new. I'm just glad the fix was easy and I didn't have to go back to the dealer to fix this.
In this case it definitely wasn't placebo. Before I did the DCT reset, the bike would noticeable jerk between 1-2-3 gear shifts and 4-5-6 was smooth. After reset, all gear changes are smooth.

 

[the Ferret]

1st thru 3rd shifts are more noticable on mine, than 4th thru 6th, more in sound than feeling. I certainly wouldnt say they were jerky, just a little louder.

 

[lootzyan]

...I'm just glad the fix was easy and I didn't have to go back to the dealer to fix this.
...Before I did the DCT reset, the bike would noticeable jerk between 1-2-3 gear...After reset, all gear changes are smooth.

Unless someone from Honda tells me I'm wrong, I will insist, according to the service manual, that this is a Clutch Initialize Learning Procedure and not a calibration or system reset. The purpose of this is for the PCM to collect information about the signal values of significant sensors in the DCT and to save this information as parameters for program execution.
As you mentioned, the initial operation of your NC DCT was normal. Something happened and the shifting got worse.
After "reset" DCT works as before. But "reset" doesn't fix anything. The PCM only collects information from the DCT. This is not the same as, for example, resetting many different electronic systems when something like repairing the operating system or eliminating errors from memory takes place.
Without measurements this is only speculation, but perhaps the electrical contact of one of the sensors may have deteriorated and the value of the signal to the PCM has changed. And this should be reported to the dealer's service for a detailed check, because it may happen again. This is a connection fault in the electrical circuit. And there can be no excuse that everything is working properly.

 

[670cc]

How many NC clutches have you replaced? One more than probably 99% of DCT owners.

I’ve done a DCT reset two or three times in about 60,000 miles. It’s mostly placebo in my opinion but since it takes all of 30 seconds it doesn’t hurt anything.

My trashing a manual clutch in the mud has nothing to do with DCT “resets”. But you make a good point in that few DCT owners are replacing clutches. Yet strangely, the DCT clutch calibration procedure is popular. At least the myth of the DCT “learning” individual rider’s riding style and habit is fading away.