What Engine Bars ?

[MZ5]

Grump, those £90 bars do look good! And I'm with you on the Japanese ones looking great, but being too pricey. The German ones you linked look like they'd offer a perfect mount point for my highway pegs. Their current position on the frame is a bit higher than I want.

Update.......

HONDA NC700x Crash Bars Engine Bars Black

As the retailers in the UK did not respond to me I wrote direct to the manufacturers "Ernst Fehling". They responded within the day. These bars are mounted in three places from what I can see. The obvious point is the rear engine mount. A metal tab attaches to the front engine mount and another to the bottom of the frame down tube. The bar then attaches to them.

They are a well finished product but I still cannot make up my mind on this one. I feel there is too much scope for movement or bending of the tabs in an impact.

I like the Givi mounting points as they look solid, but for me the usage of the original Honda bolts is a minus. Johnakay suggests he had difficulty in sourcing bolts of the correct pitch if I am not mistaken.

SW Motech look well made . However there is a crossbar, and imho an impact on one bar will push the other out of position also. My other question is, is there potential also for the crash bar hit the radiator in an impact. Again, if anyone has a front on shot of a set of SW Motech bars, a shot would be appreciated.

I am still considering the Honda Light bars. I like that they mount direct to the frame using a clamp. Yes they would bend a little but they look quite robust. I reckon the crankcase would suffer though in an impact.

The most interesting crash bar for me is the Japanese item previously linked on this thread. It looks very robust and solidly mounted. However the cost to me here in Ireland is 332 euro. I could also be hit for a further 100 euro duty and Vat on entry here, if local Customs get a hold of it first.

 

[StratTuner]

Yeah, somebody pissed him off and he bailed on the Forum...................Bummer

Shame, technicians like him are hard to find!

 

[Old Can Ride]

"So each side's crashbar would act independently?"

Each side in independent.

 

[Old Can Ride]

"As I recall, Beemerphile encountered the same problem with the stock bolts."

This was actually Rocker66 post that Beemerpile added all the information on the Givi Bars.

Rocker66 is down from a accident right now, and I used this post, so I just happen to know where it is.

Givi Engine Guard Post: http://nc700-forum.com/forum/nc700-mods/414-givi-engine-bars.html

I wish Beemerpile was back on this forum, also. I can guarantee a lot more folks than just me want Beemerpile's insight and experience back on this forum. No substitute of experience.

 

[pismocycleguy]

Where to find Beemerphile's bolt recommendation for Givi Engine Bars

Do a Forum Search for the "Givi Engine Bars" Thread
Then Go to page #8 of this Thread
Then go to Post #2
There you will find the replacement bolts grade, length, pitch, and thread length recommended by Beemerphile.

I will now do what I dislike being done to me ... so I'll do it carefully...

As I recall, Beemerphile encountered the same problem with the stock bolts. He didn't want to use them. He wanted longer ones. If I remember correctly (there's a big IF) he found them and listed his supplier.

Now the problem I have (much as I love this board) is that it's darn near impossible to find anything when you search. I'm sure someone will argue with me about that, so I'll say it a different way ... I can not find anything with much specificity when I search because I am stupid and/or lazy. I have given up trying. I'm sure others are just great at finding stuff. I am not one of them.

 

[670cc]

I wish Beemerpile was back on this forum, also. I can guarantee a lot more folks than just me want Beemerpile's insight and experience back on this forum. No substitute of experience.

Well a lot of people wish Beemerphile was back. But apparently there is one coward out there that doesn't, has made trouble here on multiple occasions, and for that reason, Beemerphile's gone.

 

[Deleted member 1183]

I found Beemerphiles post on the bolts. I have it saved so I know what to look for. It was comprehensive and well written. He was obviously a great asset to this forum and it is a pity he has left.

It is encouraging that OCR tells how they did the job at 65 mph. That is a good recommendation indeed. For me the key strength area on those crashbars is that they clamp to a frame member in the centre.

I am starting to lean in the Givi direction as the cost of the Japanese items is prohibitive, especially with the risk of duty also. Crashbars for me are totally functional for protection in a fall . I will not be using them to mount any other items. Truth be known I just don't like crashbars in general, as I agree with Beemerphile that they can do more harm than good in a crash if not chosen carefully. I have about 9000 miles on the bike currently without crashbars, but a low speed off from my SM a few weeks ago, has me thinking about the law of averages etc etc . Fortunately there was little damage done on it despite the absence of crashbars.

 

[johnakay]

I hadn't notice some one has upset Beemerphil.
as for the longer bolts I couldn't find them any where 1.25mm pitch or what ever it was .
any after having a chat with a couple of retired engineering friends ..if the bolts are 2/3 way in it will not make any different as far as strength goes.

 

[Deleted member 1183]

After further consideration I have placed an order for Givi bars. I will source the required bolts from a specialist and get on with fitting etc. Many thanks to everyone for their input. It was very much appreciated.

 

[Deleted member 1183]

One final question. Can someone let me have the torque settings for the 4 engine mounting bolts ? Many thanks.

 

[670cc]

One final question. Can someone let me have the torque settings for the 4 engine mounting bolts ? Many thanks.

40 lb-ft per the Honda service manual.

 

[Deleted member 1183]

40 lb-ft per the Honda service manual.

Many thanks for that.

 

[pismocycleguy]

and after having a chat with a couple of retired engineering friends ..if the bolts are 2/3 way in it will not make any different as far as strength goes. .

Sorry, but I'll have to disagree with your engineer friends. As Beemerphile said, mounting bolts that penetrate all the way through the engine mounting holes will be 33% stronger to resist crash stress than bolts that only penetrate 66% of the engine mounting holes. More surface area to distribute the load from a bike falling over or sliding on the ground. More surface area equals less stress pressure per cubic centimeter, so less chance of damaging the engine mounting castings on the engine.

 

[pismocycleguy]

Update.......

HONDA NC700x Crash Bars Engine Bars Black

As the retailers in the UK did not respond to me I wrote direct to the manufacturers "Ernst Fehling". They responded within the day. These bars are mounted in three places from what I can see. The obvious point is the rear engine mount. A metal tab attaches to the front engine mount and another to the bottom of the frame down tube. The bar then attaches to them.

I also contacted Fehling about USA pricing and received a delivered to my home address price of $178.75, which is about $2.00 less than Givi bars delivered to my home. $180.00. I like the looks, but not the cutting of the plastic OEM belly pan. Plus I think the Givi bars provide a larger area of protection for the engine, plastic body panels, and radiator. Just my take.

 

[Deleted member 1183]

An important consideration is what accessories are you going to add to the engine guards. I have my running lights and highway pegs attached to my engine guards. My Givi engine guards have been tested by me, unfortunately in a 65 mph crash. They did their job! I believe every thing that Beemerpile says, so I did go to a bolt only supplier and purchase the bolts that Beemerpile suggested. They were special ordered and I picked the bolts up the next day. The bolts were no big problem and cost only a few dollars.

View attachment 10635

Well today I fitted my Givi engine bars. They are strong indeed with good triangulation. I am not happy about the use of the original engine bolts though. To OCR, being aware from this post that you tested your Givis at a good speed, did you see any ill affects from the use of the original engine bolts, or did you put in longer bolts in the first place ? Furthermore, did you repair, or replace your Givis with another set ?

One aspect of fitting I did note, was having difficulty in getting the mounting points on the left bar to line up. They did not do so easily and care had to be taken in fitting the various bolts, as a result. It is very easy to cross thread in such a situation. To others fitting these bars, take care that the right bar or its mountings do not foul the electrical cables near the rear (from the crankcase just behind the clutch cable holder) and at the front, where a cable is attached to the frame.

 

[L.B.S.]

as for the longer bolts I couldn't find them any where 1.25mm pitch or what ever it was .

Try the following link. They definitely have the bolts. I am currently querying the longest one with them.

Metric thread form Reduced Flange Head Bolt (part thread)

Beware that stainless steel is not acceptable for such applications as motor mounts etc., it is quite a bit lower strength than required! Grade 8 should be a minimum in such cases, I believe.

 

[Deleted member 1183]

Beware that stainless steel is not acceptable for such applications as motor mounts etc., it is quite a bit lower strength than required! Grade 8 should be a minimum in such cases, I believe.

Many thanks for the warning. I would not have known. The search accordingly continues. These items are not easy to find over here. I may have to try across the pond in the US or wherever.

 

[L.B.S.]

Many thanks for the warning. I would not have known. The search accordingly continues. These items are not easy to find over here. I may have to try across the pond in the US or wherever.

Note these are much more spendy than the plain black unplated (and rust prone) ones, though...


Fastenal.com

(lengths based on Lee's kind research)

M12 x 1.25 x 55mm 10.9 yellow zinc cap screw

http://www.fastenal.com/web/product...%20Thread"$|~%20~|sattr05:^"Yellow%20Zinc"$|~



M12 x 1.25 x 70mm 10.9 yellow zinc cap screw

http://www.fastenal.com/web/product...8:^"Partial%20Thread"$|~%20~|sattr07:^1.25$|~



M12 x 1.25 x 90mm 10.9 yellow zinc cap screw

http://www.fastenal.com/web/product...%20~|sattr07:^1.25$|~%20~|attrlength:169200|~

They have a bunch of branches in the UK

 

[pismocycleguy]

Another option!

Many thanks for the warning. I would not have known. The search accordingly continues. These items are not easy to find over here. I may have to try across the pond in the US or wherever.

Grump,
I have a complete set of the proper, longer bolts and washers necessary to mount the Givi engine bars as recommended by Beemerphile. If you are interested I will sell them to you for the original price I paid, (approximately 25 US Dollars), plus the shipping charge to your address in the UK. If this sounds of interest to you, send me your email address and I will email you a copy of the original purchase invoice for the bolts and washers, and I can calculate the postage when I know your shipping address.
I'm offering to sell them to you because my Givi bars haven't arrived yet, and the bolts and washers have.

 

[Deleted member 1183]

Grump,
I have a complete set of the proper, longer bolts and washers necessary to mount the Givi engine bars as recommended by Beemerphile. If you are interested I will sell them to you for the original price I paid, (approximately 25 US Dollars), plus the shipping charge to your address in the UK. If this sounds of interest to you, send me your email address and I will email you a copy of the original purchase invoice for the bolts and washers, and I can calculate the postage when I know your shipping address.
I'm offering to sell them to you because my Givi bars haven't arrived yet, and the bolts and washers have.

That is very decent of you Pismocycleguy. Very decent indeed, and very much appreciated, especially as you will need these for your own bars when they arrive. However you will see that LBS has pointed out a source in his post above, which is only "up the road" from me so to speak. I will give them a try and see how things go seeing as they are so close. If I again run into trouble I may take you up on your offer. Again, many thanks.