Recommended Chain,Sprocket, and Costs

[turbodieseli4i6]

Thanks for posting the link. I read the differences in strength between the two, but couldn't find it to post it here. Luckily you came through with the information.
I wouldn't have a problem having a clip style master link and a few spare links on hand for a emergency breakdown away from home, but prefer an endless chain myself.

 

[MZ5]

I'm with you, L.B.S. and duk2n: I like clip-type links. I've installed and replaced literally miles of roller chain on agricultural equipment in my life, and the ONLY time any clip-type master link has EVER failed on me is when either I damaged (bent) the clip or it just visually wasn't closing properly, but I put it together anyway because I HAD to get every single potato I possibly could out of the ground before the end of the day (to beat an impending storm, for example).

If D.I.D. is saying that they choose to not make strong clip-type links, then I certainly wouldn't use their clip-type links. In my view, it's completely nonsensical that they _couldn't_ build the two types of links 100% equivalent in terms of strength, since the only difference there need be is in the specific machining and/or treatment of the ends of the pins beyond the side plate, but if they choose to not do an equivalent job then that's very useful/important information to have.

I think it's also useful to remember that the amount of strain on the chain is a direct function of the amount of torque at the countershaft (and number of teeth on that sprocket), which is a direct function of the _power_ output of the motor. The NCX is a pretty darned low-power engine for its displacement, in the non-cruiser motorcycle realm, so when chain companies say that xxx chain is 'rated' for 750cc sport bikes, we have a rather large 'buffer,' so to speak, to go 'down' in strength from there without expectation of trouble.

 

[showkey]

That makes + 4 on the above....^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Beemerphile]

I'm with you, L.B.S. and duk2n: I like clip-type links. I've installed and replaced literally miles of roller chain on agricultural equipment in my life, and the ONLY time any clip-type master link has EVER failed on me is when either I damaged (bent) the clip or it just visually wasn't closing properly, but I put it together anyway because I HAD to get every single potato I possibly could out of the ground before the end of the day (to beat an impending storm, for example).

If D.I.D. is saying that they choose to not make strong clip-type links, then I certainly wouldn't use their clip-type links. In my view, it's completely nonsensical that they _couldn't_ build the two types of links 100% equivalent in terms of strength, since the only difference there need be is in the specific machining and/or treatment of the ends of the pins beyond the side plate, but if they choose to not do an equivalent job then that's very useful/important information to have.

I think it's also useful to remember that the amount of strain on the chain is a direct function of the amount of torque at the countershaft (and number of teeth on that sprocket), which is a direct function of the _power_ output of the motor. The NCX is a pretty darned low-power engine for its displacement, in the non-cruiser motorcycle realm, so when chain companies say that xxx chain is 'rated' for 750cc sport bikes, we have a rather large 'buffer,' so to speak, to go 'down' in strength from there without expectation of trouble.

It is an old adage that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. I don't know how many pounds of force it takes to pull potatoes out of the ground, but 65% of 8200 lbs. is 5300 lbs., so if pulling an NC700 takes less than 5300 lbs. the clip style link will not "break". Clip style links may work fine on the NC. I have had to replace clip links that got damaged and have had clips go missing on dirt bikes before and would therefore personally be averse to running one on a street bike. Not because I am going to rip it to pieces, but because I want full confidence and strength for the life of the chain. This is D.I.D. data that I have presented, but I don't know that the other manufacturers are any better (or worse). The owners manual of some sport bikes warn against the use of clip style links. They don't warn against D.I.D. clip style links.

You may be willing to turn an 8200 lb. chain into a 5300 lb. chain and watch it regularly for signs of deterioration or missing parts in order to save a few minutes of work. I am not. I also value peace of mind and consider riveted links to be a safety advantage over clip style links. I am sure someone could take the time to find equivalent guidance from RK, Ek, or Tsubaki. I don't think it is a D.I.D. issue. If D.I.D. could make the clip style link just as strong but didn't, and everyone else does, then they are simply stupid. It makes me wonder how they got to the top of the chain market. But more accurately, I don't believe that to be the case based on the fact that guidance against their use on street bikes is widespread and NOT brand specific..

 

[MZ5]

What I know is:
--Clip-type links _can_ be made to equivalent strength.
--D.I.D.'s are not made to equivalent strength.
--Many motorcycle-type roller chains are supplied with clip-type master links.
--Many are supplied with rivet-type master links.

The rest is speculation, as far as I can see.

I respect your choice; peace of mind is important.

 

[Fuzzy]

So what chain for NC has a clip style link that is as strong as the rest of the chain and verified as such by manufacturer?

 

[showkey]

A new thread theme to compete with oil, KN filters, tire beads and car tires on bikes.

Is chain breaking on a bike with even minimal chain maintenance actually that big of concern.......... ?????????

 

[MZ5]

The only assumption about ANY master link type supplied with a given roller chain, that is even semi-reasonable, is that it is equivalent in strength to the chain with which it is supplied. Anything significantly less would be expected to fail prematurely under the principle Beemerphile so quaintly articulated, and we simply don't see that happen in use.

Checking major roller chain suppliers, one will see that it is common to see clip-type masters supplied (and rated) with chains up to approximately #80, and cotter-pin type masters for larger sizes. Rivet-type masters are not 'the norm,' IME, in most roller chain apps.

 

[StratTuner]

OK... order is on its way...
Final order was...

Front 16T - Stock
Rear 43T - Stock
DID 520 VX2 series X'ring Chain - GOLD COLOR (750cc rated)

$171 shipped. Should I have ordered "composite" instead of Steel?

 

[Old Can Ride]

DID Prostreet VX X-Ring. DID 520VX2 X 114FB. Mfg# 520VX2X114FB For your automatic the chain length is not 114, but same chain but in your chain length. Has the clip style link that comes with the chain. If you want the rivet it is offered also.

 

[StratTuner]

DID Prostreet VX X-Ring. DID 520VX2 X 114FB. Mfg# 520VX2X114FB For your automatic the chain length is not 114, but same chain but in your chain length. Has the clip style link that comes with the chain. If you want the rivet it is offered also.

I don't understand this post. Is this something you recommend instead of the steel I ordered? Is this composite?
I have the manual shift transmission.

 

[L.B.S.]

OK... order is on its way...
Final order was...

Front 16T - Stock
Rear 43T - Stock
DID 520 VX2 series X'ring Chain - GOLD COLOR (750cc rated)

$171 shipped. Should I have ordered "composite" instead of Steel?

Where are you finding "composite" as a choice option for anything?

From what I could see, the choices for chain are: Gold or Natural for colour, Rivet or Clip for master link, and Length in link.

Front sprocket: 520 chromoly-steel front sprocket.

Rear sprocket: 520 Superlite brand RS7 series black steel rear sprocket.

The only even remote thing I can guess at for composite term to be involved, would be if you somehow found a rear sprocket choice that was an aluminum centre section with a steel tooth ring. I couldn't find that type in my looking anywhere, let alone as a pretty obvious choice for an NC700X off the shelf sprocket and chain kit. That would veer off into the territory of a Motocross bike or a racing application kinda thing, so I'm at a loss where you dug up that one, Strat...

I put in composite in "search entire site" and only came up with it mentioning that the handle of a chain breaker/rivet tool RK UCT4060 Pro Chain Breaker and Rivet Tool Kit was made of composite. (and even at that, I couldn't find an option to get a steel handled one instead)

You don't need to over complicate this.

 

[Fuzzy]

The only assumption about ANY master link type supplied with a given roller chain, that is even semi-reasonable, is that it is equivalent in strength to the chain with which it is supplied. Anything significantly less would be expected to fail prematurely under the principle Beemerphile so quaintly articulated, and we simply don't see that happen in use.

Checking major roller chain suppliers, one will see that it is common to see clip-type masters supplied (and rated) with chains up to approximately #80, and cotter-pin type masters for larger sizes. Rivet-type masters are not 'the norm,' IME, in most roller chain apps.

As a mechanical engineer I respectfully disagree with you blanket assumption. The press fit into side plates better transmits uniform load to side plates than slip fit of clip link. Beemer shared specific numbers of a premium brand and unless otherwise verified a safer assumption is that supplier typical.

A clip link being suitable is a different question. Motorcycle chains typically don't fail exceeding breaking strength. Our engine won't put 5000 pounds of pull on the chain. Use a clip link and you should be fine with proper care and maintenance.

Oh, and in my work world an 80 roller chain (1" pitch") is about as small as it gets.

 

[Old Can Ride]

Manual uses the 114 link chain.

 

[Beemerphile]

The press fit into side plates better transmits uniform load to side plates than slip fit of clip link.

That is true, and is represented in the strength chart. Clip master links are available with both press-fit and slip fit sideplates. Using D.I.D.'s numbers the slip fit master links are 65% of the strength of the chain where the press-fit clip links are 85% of the strength of the chain. However, unless you are using the weaker slip fit links, you still need an assembly tool to properly fit and gauge the sideplate during assembly, so why not go the rest of the way and use staked pins and get the full strength and durability of any other link on the chain? Also, if you use the press-fit clip links you lose the "benefit" of being able to repeatedly remove and reinstall the chain (for cleaning or such) because the press-fit will deteriorate. Even with slip fit master links, the fragile clips can suffer damage from repeated or improper flexing during assembly. They aren't built for that and replacement clips are not available from any supplier. Scour the net and you will find multiple accounts of clip links causing a motorcycle drive chain to dismount (with various outcomes) and close to nothing for problems with riveted links.

You can argue that all the clip has to do is keep the sideplate from walking off, but at least two caveats exist:

1) It can't do that if it is missing (there are many accounts of where this has happened for whatever reason).
2) If there is any misalignment to the sprockets there will be a sideload on the plates that can overpower the clip.

I can see that a slip fit clip style link is easier to install correctly and can be done without tools. I can see that it is maybe five minutes quicker. I cannot see that the advantages are worth the drawbacks. A chain is a safety item like brakes and tires. All are easy to work on but require that proper techniques and tools are used. I see nothing here that a dedicated home mechanic cannot accomplish properly. You might ruin the first link you install and have to grind it off and start over, but $10 and thirty minutes later you are an expert.

This will be my last post on this topic. I have said all I know to say on it. I get accused of being pedantic on these kinds of topics and not understanding that my issues are academic or theoretical and that there are other equally good solutions. I guess if I thought there were other equally good solutions I'd shut up sooner. But as a consolation prize, I'm shutting up now.

 

[StratTuner]

Where are you finding "composite" as a choice option for anything?

From what I could see, the choices for chain are: Gold or Natural for colour, Rivet or Clip for master link, and Length in link.

Front sprocket: 520 chromoly-steel front sprocket.

Rear sprocket: 520 Superlite brand RS7 series black steel rear sprocket.

You don't need to over complicate this.

My mechanic said that next time I should order "alloy"... not "composite"...composite is the wrong word. I shouldn't have used it.
He recommended "alloy" (I presume he meant chrome molly) over "steel", so I was just asking.
I wonder if the sprocket I ordered is steel or chromoly-stell... I'll have to go and look.

It's an important purchase, so I want to make sure I get the right stuff.
I value your advice.

I went to the site and looked. The front sprocket is chromoly-steel and the rear sprocket is steel.
I wonder why the rear sprocket isn't also chromoly-steel?
I will presume I've done about the best I can until I learn different.

 

[Beemerphile]

I wonder if the sprocket I ordered is steel or chromoly-steel... I'll have to go and look..

This can be confusing. There are alloys of both steel and aluminum, but in this context, an alloy sprocket usually means an aluminum alloy sprocket. The duty of the rear sprocket is much less severe than the front. You will never see an aluminum alloy front sprocket. The reason it is done on the rear is that the lighter sprocket improves acceleration and handling by the reduced unsprung and revolving mass. Enough to tell? You decide. An alloy rear sprocket will probably last the life of the chain, so if you change chains and sprockets together, then it makes sense to consider it. It will not, however, be as durable as a steel sprocket. There are several things that are done in steel sprocket design to address the weight penalty. They are often cut out (skeletonized) so that unnecessary mass is removed. Another trick is to use an (aluminum) alloy center with a steel tooth ring attached to it. With our bike, and especially if you change sprockets and chains together, you are just dandy with an alloy sprocket. However, you have not "messed up" by buying the steel one. Steel or chrome/moly? Don't even think about it.

 

[duk2n]

This will be my last post on this topic. I have said all I know to say on it. I get accused of being pedantic on these kinds of topics and not understanding that my issues are academic or theoretical and that there are other equally good solutions. I guess if I thought there were other equally good solutions I'd shut up sooner. But as a consolation prize, I'm shutting up now.

I'm sure most of us appreciate your posts. IMHO raising a debate is good if it conduces to handle better info and knowledge

 

[bamamate]

I've learned a lot through the discussion on this thread. Feel like I can now buy a chain, sprockets, and tools with confidence instead of throwing a dart.
Also decided to rethink towing my truck with the bike since it weighs ~5k and that would push the limits of the chain.

 

[L.B.S.]

There's nothing better than a cordial, civilized debate, with various parties expressing their for and against on a subject where everybody learns something new, and hopefully takes to heart any wisdom or new ideas brought to the table, regardless of the presenter.