is it worthy to get nc750x over nc700???

[happy]

I spoke with a member of my MC club last night. He changed from a 700X dct to a 750X dct. I asked him about the differences. He mentioned slightly more passing power but did not enthuse about it. He mentioned higher gearing and spoke some about alterations in the frequency of gear changes. That was about it and then he changed the subject. My overall feeling was that he had changed his NC with 25000Kms on it for another NC with some slight improvements and that was it. He did not give the impression that there were any huge advantages to the change other than he now had a newer model. To be honest I had expected him to be a little more effusive about the change, but he told me nothing to make me change my mind about keeping the 700 that I have.

Whenever I buy something, I don't want to appear silly and so I will "defend" my purchase. Many people think the same.
However sometimes it is really just a model upgrade with minimal changes. I think honestly this is the case with the 750.
Would i buy it? No real pressing reason.


Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

 

[dduelin]

With all due respect, but until a person has ridden both the 700 and 750 machines it's difficult for anyone who hasn't to make a reasonable comparison.
Of course jumping over to the 750 from the 700 doesn't make any financial sense whatsoever, but how many of us use our common sense when it comes to motorcycles?
After I purchased my 700 I always thought it was a reasonable machine. Shortly after I saw a picture of a red 700S and immediately fell in love. Unfortunately that colour wasn't imported into England. So when the 750 was announced and I saw we were getting a red 750S, I knew immediately I was going to buy one. Common sense didn't come into it, it was purely my desire for a red S model.
In the end I'm glad I made the move as I prefer the 750 over my previous 700 and I know I'll be keeping my 750 for a lot longer than I did the 700. It's down to the simple fact that I find the 750 a more exciting machine to ride and the red S model's absolutely stunning looks ( to me anyhow).

You are a decent chap and have been around a long while and I appreciate reading your posts and your experience with both bikes is something I do not have. To that point you are absolutely correct but I'll clarify I wasn't comparing the two bikes at all but rather responding to the mention of one bike having more soul than the other. If you have some time on motorcycles you know about the commonly held notion that Honda builds very refined reliable machines but the high level of refinement also often yields a rather bland or soulless motorcycle compared to other bikes with more "character". I'll leave the discussion of what character is and whether or not this is a good or not so good thing to another time and place but when the little 670 cc NC was released it was often noted in reviews that the NC's engine had a bit of character missing in most Hondas. The character was part of what attracted me to the bike and if in part the changes removed or reduced the quirkiness attributed to the engine's vibrations and power delivery then the 750 rather than the 700 is closer to the Honda ideal of blandness and high polish. If this is true, and I believe it so, then the latter has less character and in my opinion, less soul. To opine otherwise I think is an interesting concept and does not hold up under observation. Carry on!

 

[showkey]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This character thing is alive and well.......

Cycle World July 2014. Page 70. CTX1300. Downs. "Engine lacks character".........and in the article text ......" In general, engine character is lacking".

This is a comparison article with Guzzi California ........."you just can't ignore the looks, it's sound and its quirky engine pulse, even the way it fries your crotch on a hot day".

 

[agia]

Interesting that some perceive the NC700X as lacking soul. I moved to this platform from a much larger bike -- a Honda ST1300 that is incredibly refined and smooth. I thought that bike was 'bland' when you cranked the throttle. It would move alright...its just that it did it too smoothly and predictably. I find my NC feels less refined in comparison and it feels like I'm actually riding a motorcycle. Anyhow, just my personal observations. I know there are some ST1300 riders here and they can possibly relate.

 

[dduelin]

In Canada and the rest of the world budget has everything to do with it. Last years 700's are deeply discounted. A chap can save himself $2500-$3000 over the 750. This thead has turned into if the 750 is worth the upgrade and to those that have them the little bit more the 750 offers is worth it when money is not a factor. This is not just my opinion, it's every motorcycle journalist opinion.

Your not hitting the rev limiter because you have adjusted to the way the bike needs to be shifted. A complaint of the 700 for first time NC riders was bouncing of the red line. Honda addressed that issue with a touch more power and it seems to have helped.

I'm not sure what "attitude" your referring too? If was the comment that the American's are getting the "leftovers" well that's the reality and you have an issue with Honda.

Last month's Bike review of the 750 wasn't exactly glowing. I was disappointed to read it because I get on with the NC concept really well and the 750 is incrementally better than the 700. If the reviewer barely managed to finish the review because the bike was not exciting to ride then by extension he wouldn't like the 700 either. Oh well. When you say "every" that is a categorical statement that isn't true. Most, many, etc. but "every" isn't in it.

When the NC was released it was apparent that riders and therefore motojournalists fell into two distinct camps - those that "get" it and those that don't. The NC engine concept is about efficiency per displacement rather than the time immemorial power per displacement that has driven motorcycle engine development to where we are now. There are people that just will never understand that less is more especially in motorcycles but that is OK. A butt for every seat, that's why we aren't all the same and like what we like.

As far as the rev limiter thing goes....you summed it up yourself nicely in three words: First Time Rider. Journalists as well as folks that demo the bike are all first time riders. The 700 does spin right up to the limit quickly and it's easy for a rider new to the 700 to bounce off the limit. To many that aren't used to low rpm bikes that comes as a surprise, the darn thing is pulling right to Party's Over. To riders used to a conventional under square engine their engines often struggle to a redline or limit and the engine signals a need to shift long before the rev limiter ever does. As you say one that gets on with the NC engine learns to shift it and it's no big deal but the constant chatter from first time riders keeps this non issue alive. After 25,000 miles on my bike it's so far from my mind it isn't even there and hasn't been on my mind for 24,992 miles.

One thing the NC700X has the 750 has not is Bike of the Year Awards on both sides of the Atlantic. This quirky little machine was different enough and interesting enough to garner critical acclaim in a literal sea of mid displacement motorcycles despite it's low horsepower and redline. If the Honda 500s and a 750 in a A2 restricted model had been ready in time to meet the introduction of tiered licensing in 2012 the 700 might not have ever seen the light of day but they weren't and it was so the NC700X won the BOTY awards it did.

At any rate, if the 750 had been available two years ago alongside the 700 I might have bought it. It's moot to me now. I wouldn't change from what I have.......both of these bikes are really good at what they do, and what they do is fit many roles. Let's have fun on them and get on with it.

 

[bigjeff]

Character? The NC700X has loads of character. Put the right pipe on a NCX and you have all the character you would ever need. The NCX sounds fantastic uncorked. Has all the snarls growls and burbles of the best "twin with character" with all the right vibrations when stomped on down low. You just can't hear it with that big Honda can on there.

To me the bike is fine with the stock can, just more "me" with it gone.

 

[Brillot2000]

Interesting that some perceive the NC700X as lacking soul. I moved to this platform from a much larger bike -- a Honda ST1300 that is incredibly refined and smooth. I thought that bike was 'bland' when you cranked the throttle. It would move alright...its just that it did it too smoothly and predictably. I find my NC feels less refined in comparison and it feels like I'm actually riding a motorcycle. Anyhow, just my personal observations. I know there are some ST1300 riders here and they can possibly relate.

I "LOVE" my ST1300, however it's in a class of its own and connot be compared to the NC700X. Matter of fact, I rode it today and will probably be riding it tomorrow too. It's my "2-wheeled pickup". I also have a luggage/cargo plate installed on the her too. It really helps with all the boxes that I need to transport to UPS from time to time.

 

[agia]

But I can compare it with respect that I have owned and ridden both. Are they in the same class? No -- but they are both motorcycles.

 

[670cc]

In Canada and the rest of the world budget has everything to do with it. Last years 700's are deeply discounted. A chap can save himself $2500-$3000 over the 750. This thead has turned into if the 750 is worth the upgrade and to those that have them the little bit more the 750 offers is worth it when money is not a factor. This is not just my opinion, it's every motorcycle journalist opinion.

Your not hitting the rev limiter because you have adjusted to the way the bike needs to be shifted. A complaint of the 700 for first time NC riders was bouncing of the red line. Honda addressed that issue with a touch more power and it seems to have helped.

I'm not sure what "attitude" your referring too? If was the comment that the American's are getting the "leftovers" well that's the reality and you have an issue with Honda.

Attitude was probably not the best word choice. Sorry

By attitude, I meant your suggestion that the 700 was over and done with, soon to be forgotten. To suggest that all the 700s now sold are leftovers means Honda produced an over abundance of 700 parts, which in a Just in Time world would not make any sense. 700 production marches on. The NM4, a new 2015 model, uses the 700 engine.

Sure, Honda probably intends for the 750 to carry the NC torch forward, but I predict the 700 will be a special bike for many. In fact it could be sought after for its special qualities that made it the new concept. The 750 took the new concept back toward center, with an engine closer to square, closer to mainstream, and adopts the more is better approach that the journalists promote.

 

[Brillot2000]

Attitude was probably not the best word choice. Sorry

By attitude, I meant your suggestion that the 700 was over and done with, soon to be forgotten. To suggest that all the 700s now sold are leftovers means Honda produced an over abundance of 700 parts, which in a Just in Time world would not make any sense. 700 production matches on. The NM4, a new model, uses the 700 engine.

Sure, Honda probably intends for the 750 to carry the NC torch forward, but I predict the 700 will be a special bike for many. In fact it could be sought after for its special qualities that made it the new concept. The 750 took the new concept back toward center, with an engine closer to square, closer to mainstream, and adopts the more is better approach that the journalists promote.

That was the same case with the 1976 Honda CJ360T, it was Honda's attempt to create a factory Cafe Bike.

They had a lot of leftover CB360 Engine parts and decided to use them than "Scrap" them. That bike did not do very well on sales and they are considered to be "Rare" now a days.

Sounds like history is repeating itself here.

My 1975 CB360T is a far better bike in comparsion. Wikipedia states it, 1976-77 Honda CJ360T.

 

[kc2ine]

actually with cars and motorcycle is like with movies, first part is the best... following parts/models are boring and more budget oriented.

 

[showkey]

SALES and Marketing............
This 50 cc size increase has been around for decades:

XL/XL 500 to 600 to XL/XR 650

Transalp 600 to 650 to 700

XR350 to XR400

CB CL SL series 350 to 360 to 400 to 450 to 500 to 550 to 600 to 650 to 700 to 750 etc etc etc then add a half dozen or more engine configurations in these sizes

Tariff bikes 700 to 750 around the import tax

100cc jumps like

GL 1000 to 1100 to 1200 then big jumps to 1500 to 1800

CX500 to CX650

 

[L.B.S.]

SALES and Marketing............
This 50 cc size increase has been around for decades

And then one year a company will scoop the others, by coming out with a "radical" new bike with 100cc's less, and a whole bunch of clever design philosophy and buzz words to convince everyone it's the best thing ever, to now have it smaller rather than larger, lol.

...eventually it quietly creeps up in displacement again, hee hee

 

[wozza]

If Honda in a year or two came out with say a NC900 I don't think I'd bother as I'm much happier with my 750. However, I don't think they will. The thing thing is Honda were already producing a low powered NC750 for Japanese training schools anyway long before the 750 model was announced around the world. I expect the 750 will stay a 750 for a reasonable amount of time........hopefully.

 

[dduelin]

If Honda in a year or two came out with say a NC900 I don't think I'd bother as I'm much happier with my 750. However, I don't think they will. The thing thing is Honda were already producing a low powered NC750 for Japanese training schools anyway long before the 750 model was announced around the world. I expect the 750 will stay a 750 for a reasonable amount of time........hopefully.

The NC750L was announced to the JDM in March or April 2013 a few months before the NC750 models were announced to the world at Milan fall of 2013. That's not really "long". The training model JDM 750 before that traces back some thirty years. That's "long".

 

[Ruggybuggy]

Last month's Bike review of the 750 wasn't exactly glowing. I was disappointed to read it because I get on with the NC concept really well and the 750 is incrementally better than the 700. If the reviewer barely managed to finish the review because the bike was not exciting to ride then by extension he wouldn't like the 700 either. Oh well. When you say "every" that is a categorical statement that isn't true. Most, many, etc. but "every" isn't in it.

When the NC was released it was apparent that riders and therefore motojournalists fell into two distinct camps - those that "get" it and those that don't. The NC engine concept is about efficiency per displacement rather than the time immemorial power per displacement that has driven motorcycle engine development to where we are now. There are people that just will never understand that less is more especially in motorcycles but that is OK. A butt for every seat, that's why we aren't all the same and like what we like.

As far as the rev limiter thing goes....you summed it up yourself nicely in three words: First Time Rider. Journalists as well as folks that demo the bike are all first time riders. The 700 does spin right up to the limit quickly and it's easy for a rider new to the 700 to bounce off the limit. To many that aren't used to low rpm bikes that comes as a surprise, the darn thing is pulling right to Party's Over. To riders used to a conventional under square engine their engines often struggle to a redline or limit and the engine signals a need to shift long before the rev limiter ever does. As you say one that gets on with the NC engine learns to shift it and it's no big deal but the constant chatter from first time riders keeps this non issue alive. After 25,000 miles on my bike it's so far from my mind it isn't even there and hasn't been on my mind for 24,992 miles.

One thing the NC700X has the 750 has not is Bike of the Year Awards on both sides of the Atlantic. This quirky little machine was different enough and interesting enough to garner critical acclaim in a literal sea of mid displacement motorcycles despite it's low horsepower and redline. If the Honda 500s and a 750 in a A2 restricted model had been ready in time to meet the introduction of tiered licensing in 2012 the 700 might not have ever seen the light of day but they weren't and it was so the NC700X won the BOTY awards it did.

At any rate, if the 750 had been available two years ago alongside the 700 I might have bought it. It's moot to me now. I wouldn't change from what I have.......both of these bikes are really good at what they do, and what they do is fit many roles. Let's have fun on them and get on with it.

Couldn't agree more. Anyhow you are correct, I should have used "most" instead of "every". When I picked the 750 it was a very close between it and the 700. They had a 700 for $6,300 and it was hard to pass up that saving but in end I decided on the 750 for the small improvements. Everyone would agree that if a 700 and 750 were both sitting in the showroom and had the same price on the tag the 750 would be chosen. You would be nuts to trade in a 700 for the 750, just not enough of a difference to justify. It really comes down to a personal decision, save for coin and get the 700 or pay more for marginal improvements.

 

[dduelin]

I "LOVE" my ST1300, however it's in a class of its own and connot be compared to the NC700X. Matter of fact, I rode it today and will probably be riding it tomorrow too. It's my "2-wheeled pickup". I also have a luggage/cargo plate installed on the her too. It really helps with all the boxes that I need to transport to UPS from time to time.

View attachment 18007

Soichiro Honda must surely beturning over in his grave. A pick up truck, the ST1300? The ST brief came out of Germany.....to create a GT class motorcycle capable of hauling two people and their luggage at autobahn speeds and across mountain passes in all weathers swiftly and safely. Across 5 countries or cross continents 500 miles before lunch for days on end. A Gentleman's Express as it were. Use a plow horse for trips to the UPS store. The ST will do it gladly and willingly but so sad, so sad.

After 8 years and 135,xxx miles I still absolutely love my ST and have no plans to replace it for many miles to come. A heart of stout V4 with millions of yen in R&D behind it my pulse still quickens with a thought of riding it to the Post Office or California. It's character is so polished it blends with the rider into one system with no raw edges impinging on the experience. To some that is boring I have no doubt but it's the perfect bookend machine to my NC.

 

[Jelly]

WOW! What a thread.

Here's my take on the 700 v 750 debate.

First off, I'm a 750 owner and I'd like to explain why.
As soon as I saw the new NC700X it immediately got my attention, I researched it until the end of the earth, especially the DCT element.
At the time I couldn't afford a new bike so I had to wait, I'd worked out that I'd be able to get one in the spring of 2014, then I sat back, kept myself entertained with watching the same YouTube vids over and over and waited, and kept dreaming.

I test rode both the manual and DCT versions of the 700X, and decided that the DCT was the bike for me, that was in the summer of last year, after that, more waiting.

Then one day I find out that they've bought out a 750 version just a few months before I'd be buying one, and at the same price too! So that's how I came to buy a 750. Because I couldn't afford it at the time that the 700 was released, or the following two years.

If the 750 still didn't exist, then I'd have a 700 in the garage now and I know I'd be every bit as happy with it as what I've got now.

Yeah OK, the 750 has got this and that but the 700 was a great machine anyway, if you've got a 700 for whatever reason, just enjoy it, I wouldn't upgrade to a 750 if I already owned a 700.

I don't think the extra power is that important really, when I test rode the 700s they were plenty powerful enough for me.
Having said that, I haven't ridden a 700 since, maybe if I did I'd notice the difference, but we're not talking about going from a 750 to a 700.

If power was that an important factor in our choice of bike we would all be on some GSXR forum now instead of here.

A rider on a 700 accompanying another rider on a 750 on the same trip would have no less fun, that I'm pretty sure of.

 

[Ruggybuggy]

They didn't discount the 700's in England when the 750's arrived?

Canada saw major discounts to encourage sales of the 700.

 

[agia]

Soichiro Honda must surely beturning over in his grave. A pick up truck, the ST1300? The ST brief came out of Germany.....to create a GT class motorcycle capable of hauling two people and their luggage at autobahn speeds and across mountain passes in all weathers swiftly and safely. Across 5 countries or cross continents 500 miles before lunch for days on end. A Gentleman's Express as it were. Use a plow horse for trips to the UPS store. The ST will do it gladly and willingly but so sad, so sad.

After 8 years and 135,xxx miles I still absolutely love my ST and have no plans to replace it for many miles to come. A heart of stout V4 with millions of yen in R&D behind it my pulse still quickens with a thought of riding it to the Post Office or California. It's character is so polished it blends with the rider into one system with no raw edges impinging on the experience. To some that is boring I have no doubt but it's the perfect bookend machine to my NC.

I didn't mean to bring the ST issue up -- but I did nonetheless. In many respects, I miss my ST. Great commuter bike, multi-state tourer, and sleeper for those that dared to race me up the freeway on-ramp. It was too perfect (sans the water pump issue!). It replaced a 2000 Kawi Concours. Now there's a bike with niggles but I liked that bike too. In fact, I still belong to the Concours Owners Group. I like what you wrote about the ST...there's a reason it too has a following.