Diagnosing the leak

[rippin209]

Make sure this part is properly aligned when putting it together and the absolute worst that could happen is that it leaks and you have to take it apart and put it back together again. Not what you want to do, but not dangerous to you or your motorcycle, decidedly not the end of the world. Don't fret, be patient and it'll work out

 

[Deleted member 5383]

yes, godspeed!

 

[StratTuner]

the proper mental attitude is important. I need to re capture that today.

I expect I'll learn a lot when I take the old one out.

Should I use any kind of "sealant in a tube" where metal presses up against metal?

 

[670cc]

the proper mental attitude is important. I need to re capture that today.

I expect I'll learn a lot when I take the old one out.

Should I use any kind of "sealant in a tube" where metal presses up against metal?

I believe you have the relevant service manual pages. Do not use a sealant unless the manual specifically calls for it in that procedure. If the procedure calls for sealant, the manual will specify exactly which type. Just follow the steps.

 

[rippin209]

the proper mental attitude is important. I need to re capture that today.

I expect I'll learn a lot when I take the old one out.

Should I use any kind of "sealant in a tube" where metal presses up against metal?

It looks like there should be a small dab of grease applied. If there is some on the old, put a little on the new one. I'm talking about the out side edge where the drive gear for the pump is. The same area I highlighted on the pic in a earlier post. Not sure about any grease or sealant anywhere else

 

[shapemaster]

Antifreeze? Did on my brand new 2013 and dealer had my bike back in within 36 hours of riding it away from their floor.
New water pump and seals.


Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[StratTuner]

Antifreeze? Did on my brand new 2013 and dealer had my bike back in within 36 hours of riding it away from their floor.
New water pump and seals.


Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

New Anti Freeze Liquid? Yes. I plan to use new anti freeze as I'm guessing all of the old will run out when I remove the existing water pump.

 

[StratTuner]

FAIL:
\
This bolt can NOT be backed out enough to release. It runs into the frame.
My guess is the factory put the water pump on BEFORE bolting the engine to the frame.
I'm not smart enough to drop the engine out of the frame.
I could drill a large hole in the frame so the bolt would have some place to go, but that does't seem like a good idea to me.
Sigh...
What would a real mechanic have done? I have NO idea.

My first impulse is to have the local junk yard haul it away as scrap, but maybe it's time to have the local MotorSport shop haul it away to repair it.

I can see this "leak repair" climbing up to the $1500 mark, easy.

My budget for this is $200 a month, so.... it will have to sit on the patio for about 8 months.

thanks to all the people who offered encouragement.

 

[670cc]

FAIL:
View attachment 34178\
This bolt can NOT be backed out enough to release. It runs into the frame.
My guess is the factory put the water pump on BEFORE bolting the engine to the frame.
I'm not smart enough to drop the engine out of the frame.
I could drill a large hole in the frame so the bolt would have some place to go, but that does't seem like a good idea to me.
Sigh...
What would a real mechanic have done? I have NO idea.

My first impulse is to have the local junk yard haul it away as scrap, but maybe it's time to have the local MotorSport shop haul it away to repair it.

I can see this "leak repair" climbing up to the $1500 mark, easy.

My budget for this is $200 a month, so.... it will have to sit on the patio for about 8 months.

thanks to all the people who offered encouragement.

Strat, the service manual steps I read, if I remember correctly, worked you through the removal of that bolt. I think you are to back it off but not completely remove it. The directions you posted in post #34 say to loosen bolts 3 and 4. It does not say to remove them. You then take the bolts out along with the pump. Are you saying the bolt hits the frame but it is still caught in the threads?

Worst case, I would saw the bolt off long before I would drill the frame.

 

[sumo]

Don't give up Mr Turner, you can do it!

 

[StratTuner]

Strat, the service manual steps I read, if I remember correctly, worked you through the removal of that bolt. I think you are to back it off but not completely remove it. The directions you posted in post #34 say to loosen bolts 3 and 4. It does not say to remove them. You then take the bolts out along with the pump. Are you saying the bolt hits the frame but it is still caught in the threads?

Worst case, I would saw the bolt off long before I would drill the frame.

It's become just another thing....to fail at...

It's still engaged in the threads, rigid, immovable. You can pull at the pump assembly all you like, but that bolt hods it in place.
A hack saw will not fit in there, so I don't know how you'd saw it off. There's simply no room to saw.

I know that if I give enough money to someone I don't know, they will fix it...and not tell me how.
It becomes just another secret something I'm on the outside of ... looking in... with no understanding.

All this emotion, this "drama", is unwelcome in a modern world and here in polite computer forums.
It's also the reason I'm not a mechanic, or a technician.

 

[Fuzzy]

If all bolts are partially backed out the pump should move. Sounds like the two parts are stuck together and need some prying or other encouragement to come apart.

 

[rippin209]

If all bolts are partially backed out the pump should move. Sounds like the two parts are stuck together and need some prying or other encouragement to come apart.

I second that, replacing the part anyway, why not give it a try?

 

[StratTuner]

If all bolts are partially backed out the pump should move. Sounds like the two parts are stuck together and need some prying or other encouragement to come apart.

well...it does move. It hangs nicely on the bolt I can't remove. Of course...maybe it's just the cover that's moving and not the entire pump. I've backed the bolt in a little so it's not wedged against the frame anymore.... I don't understand where the pump ends and the engine begins... Maybe this bolt needs to be loosened just a few turns so the pump can "fall off" the engine neatly. Maybe... but it sure ain't doin' that.

I can't imagine some Japanese engineer designed the pump so one could NOT remove it, but stranger things have happened.

 

[StratTuner]

I second that, replacing the part anyway, why not give it a try?

the bolt is currently "loose" (relative term), so today I'm going to try to figure out what is the pump cover and what is the entire pump. My guess is that the pump cover is now flopping loose...but the pump mechanism is still held on the engine....

I will attempt prying with a flat head screwdriver, but I suspect the thing that's binding the pump to the engine....IS the bolt I can't remove. Thus, it ain't going anywhere until that bolt comes out, and that won't happen until the engine is clear of the frame. (Who designed that?!)

I do not have the equipment or "smarts" to drop the engine clear of the frame to remove that bolt. Shame on whoever designed that so that it works that way.

 

[StratTuner]

long term... it will sit in the back yard under a cover until December (estimate 5 months)...
(... hmmm.....doesn't sound so long now that I write it down)

then I'll have a mechanic cart it to his shop and do..... whatever it is that will replace the pump and stop the coolant leak.

 

[StratTuner]

ok.... loosened the entire pump (not just the cover)... I can now see the threads of the problem bolt.
Those threads are still engaged, and until they come out of the engine, the pump isn't going anywhere.

Since the bolt can NOT be backed out any further with the FRAME in the way...
the engine will have to drop down away from the frame to allow the bolt to come out.

Cost of removing the engine to make that happen? I'll have to get another estimate in December IF the mechanic comes to the same conclusion.

 

[StratTuner]

plying it with a crow bar did not work.

Using a dremel to destroy the problem bolt would work, but the pump did not come with that bolt. We are meant to re-use it, so that's also not a solution. Even if we had another bolt, it wouldn't fit in the existing space to put the new pump in, sooooo....

Dropping the engine out remains the only solution....

(repeat: shame on the engineer who designed this.)

 

[sumo]

FAIL:
View attachment 34178\
This bolt can NOT be backed out enough to release. It runs into the frame.
My guess is the factory put the water pump on BEFORE bolting the engine to the frame.
I'm not smart enough to drop the engine out of the frame.
I could drill a large hole in the frame so the bolt would have some place to go, but that does't seem like a good idea to me.
Sigh...
What would a real mechanic have done? I have NO idea.

My first impulse is to have the local junk yard haul it away as scrap, but maybe it's time to have the local MotorSport shop haul it away to repair it.

I can see this "leak repair" climbing up to the $1500 mark, easy.

My budget for this is $200 a month, so.... it will have to sit on the patio for about 8 months.

thanks to all the people who offered encouragement.

I'm going to risk putting in my two cents. I've not messed with the water pump, so no experience...I want you to screw that bolt back in, finger tight, and then try to wiggle out the pump. I suspect that bolt does not go through to the engine proper it just holds the pump together. Because you have it screwed out an inch or two it's hitting the frame so you can't pull the pump out. MAYBE???

 

[StratTuner]

I'm going to risk putting in my two cents. I've not messed with the water pump, so no experience...I want you to screw that bolt back in, finger tight, and then try to wiggle out the pump. I suspect that bolt does not go through to the engine proper it just holds the pump together. Because you have it screwed out an inch or two it's hitting the frame so you can't pull the pump out. MAYBE???

I've examined the replacement pump, and there are NO threads in that hole for that same bolt.
That means that this bolt threads into the engine.
Until the bolt lets go of those threads, the water pump stays right where it is.