Diagnosing the leak

[dduelin]

I reviewed the service manual procedure before checking Cycle Parts Nation. Honda doesn't mention a rebuild kit of service parts, if there is one I'm unaware of it. The pump assembly includes some of the individual "ala carte" items others have added to the parts list and the thermostat is not required. Pump assembly is $152, radiator hoses about $20, a couple o rings.

But if the job is undoable DIY it's undoable.

 

[670cc]

I don't know of a rule that says hoses and thermostats need changing at 100,000 miles. I don't think those parts are mileage related. The hoses are more time related. The thermostat I wouldn't replace unless it has failed. Sounds like that mechanic wants to pad the bill a little.

 

[StratTuner]

I reviewed the service manual procedure before checking Cycle Parts Nation. Honda doesn't mention a rebuild kit of service parts, if there is one I'm unaware of it. The pump assembly includes some of the individual "ala carte" items others have added to the parts list and the thermostat is not required. Pump assembly is $152, radiator hoses about $20, a couple o rings.

But if the job is undoable DIY it's undoable.

DDuelin...I meant no disrespect. I simply totaled all the parts listed on [THIS] page to get to $281. I'm not smart enough to know what pieces are required and which are not.

 

[StratTuner]

I don't know of a rule that says hoses and thermostats need changing at 100,000 miles. I don't think those parts are mileage related. The hoses are more time related. The thermostat I wouldn't replace unless it has failed. Sounds like that mechanic wants to pad the bill a little.

Sadly, I had the same thought....which is a shame since that mechanic and I had such a friendly relationship.
I can only guess that he thinks I'm an "easy mark". (He's right about that since I don't know very much.)

Even for someone simple minded (like me) the $ didn't add up from the choices:

1. My Mechanic) no NEW pump, new seals, hoses, thermostat = $700.

2. MotroSport shop) new pump, all new seals, no hoses no thermostat = $400.

the actual cost of all the parts listed in the "water pump" page [HERE] come to $281 (or less I'm told by dduelin)

So, to get to $700, labor would have to be $400.
That seems a little steep to me.

Time to find a new mechanic.
It's ironic that one of the big "MotorSports" shops (famous for over charging) should be the ones to teach me that.

Thanks to all of you for your informed guidance.

 

[Grey1one]

That's only 4 hours labor in most shops these days...

 

[Deleted member 1183]

I am curious about the "seals" given that seals are included in the pump assembly ? Is the seal reference pertaining to gaskets ? I have a Triumph that would be of similar model vintage to the NC700X and I have heard of one with very high mileage where one of the hoses would appear to have had its internal surface dissolve into a sludge that caused some blockages. However this is the only one of these bikes I have heard this happen to. By comparison my former GL1800 lived outdoors (under cover) for 10 years and 55,000 miles without the slightest issue with hoses. Likewise with my former FJS600 Silverwing. Personally I would not be changing hoses.

 

[StratTuner]

I'm not sure if this merits going on about.... but my mechanic did reply...

I didn't provide a quote for just a water pump for two reasons; the 1st is because when you buy the water pump assembly you still don't get all the seals that would have to be replaced and the 2nd is because I can't warranty a water pump without doing the thermostat because the chances of any thermostat on any bike with an excess of 80k miles sticking after being exposed to air is too high and that makes me liable for the whole engine

He may be right about that... I don't know... when I call and ask the MotorSports people to replace the water pump, they don't stop me and say
"oh, by the way, we'll have to replace the thermostat as well."

What's going on is that i'm rattled by $700 repairs.
That can not become frequent or this motorcycle riding activity will have to stop... but that discussion is well outside the scope of this forum.

 

[670cc]

I believe the thermostat is on the opposite side of the engine and would not be touched during a water pump replacement. Also, every time you drain the coolant to change it or to remove the radiator for a valve check, the thermostat is exposed to air. I don't understand the significance of that.

Thermostats are pretty reliable. I've probably changed two on cars/trucks in the past 35 years, and none on motorcycles.

It sounds like this mechanic is insisting that you're paying the bill but the job is totally on his terms. I guess you can go with his terms or move on elsewhere.

 

[rippin209]

I'm not sure if this merits going on about.... but my mechanic did reply...



He may be right about that... I don't know... when I call and ask the MotorSports people to replace the water pump, they don't stop me and say
"oh, by the way, we'll have to replace the thermostat as well."

What's going on is that i'm rattled by $700 repairs.
That can not become frequent or this motorcycle riding activity will have to stop... but that discussion is well outside the scope of this forum.

Any kind of vehicle repair is pretty expensive. Motorcycles being a hobby for most it's defiantly not cheap but if you don't need your bike and can afford for it to be out of commission while being fixed. I would recommend trying to fix it yourself, if you don't rush and double check everything it's hard to go wrong. Lots of people are willing to help here on the forum and there are vids covering most repairs. You'll save a lot of money and learn a useful skill. My top tips for a beginner mechanic would be take lots of pics (step by step) use zip lock bags for keeping track of parts. bike specific I use a 1/4" ratchet as much as possible (less likely to over tighten things) hope you find a way to get your bike back on the road soon

 

[Antarius]

Strat,

We're local. If you can wait a little bit - a week or so - we can just do it at my house. I won't charge you anything and we can rip it out for the cost of parts. Simple as that. In fact, I bet just seal is bad and the water pump itself is fine... that's most common.

Personally I wouldn't change your hoses, I'd just change the water pump impeller and seal. Simple. Shoot me a PM, as it emails me a notice and I can respond faster.

 

[StratTuner]

Wow. I accept... PM is on the way...

I have a week before we leave for vacation, and I'm thinking about replacing the two "gaskets" on my own (gasp!)
(part #3 in the diagram). There are two of those.
Seems like that might stop the leak.

outline:
1) remove 5 bolts
2) remove/replace two gaskets
3) put the five bolts back

things I don't understand:

• what happens when you remove the five bolts that hold the assembly on? (Coolant floods out?)
• is there some internal structure that will collapse when I take the bolts out... that I, then, won't be able to put back together before putting the bolts back in? (this seems a common phenomenon for me when doing anything mechanical).
• how does the coolant get replaced after I bolt the plate back on? (don't laugh, I have no idea how that works)
• Is there something else that needs to happen I haven't considered yet?

If this effort fails, the bike will be immobile, and that means I can't accept any offer to have someone else do the work because I won't be able to to ride it anywhere.
Worth the risk?

 

[StratTuner]

OK... I hope no one tires of the subject, but here goes....

I've ordered the parts! I'm gonna D.I.M.! (Do It Myself)....



If all goes well, it will save $400... if not...I'll be the sweaty guy pushing my NC to the local "MotorSports" shop.

 

[670cc]

Strat, even expert mechanics will follow the service manual. It looks like a short and relatively simple job. Later today I'll post up the three relevant pages from the service manual. I tried just now but they keep appearing inverted. In fact, if you don't have a manual, I have a spare one I can send you cheap.

 

[StratTuner]

(Site Admin: my understanding is that reproducing "part" of a book is NOT copyright violation as reproducing all of it would be. Please remove three photos if you need to, and I'll just quote the text instead.)

Research: Here's what the service manual says... looks do-able....

 

[L.B.S.]

Don't sell yourself short, Strat. You can do it!

Take as long as you need to feel comfortable, don't rush, don't panic, slow and steady. Look at it as one little tiny section at a time, not one big overwhelming task.

"Today's only job is remove these six bolts."

"Wait, what! that job only took me 10 minutes?! Well heck, I'll try doing tomorrow's task of removing this cover thingy."

*gasp* "I got that done in 10 minutes too!" Etc., etc.

I bet you will surprise yourself, and remember we are all here for you.

 

[Antarius]

You got this!!

 

[StratTuner]

no understanding

the water pump arrived today, and I'm enclosing two pictures of the unit... one from each side...
there were NO other parts aside from the item shown.

It appears to have no rubber seals....

Now I fully expect to find rubber gaskets or seals wen I remove the old one... correct?
What's the point of ordering the "whole unit" if it DOES NOT come with the rubber seals/gaskets it needs?

Is there some mechanic's magic trick I can perform to get the seals?

Disgusted...and returning to the place where I know I can't do this.

I'm starting to fail already, and I haven't even started.
Please help.

I suppose I will know more when I take the old one off tomorrow. Perhaps that experience will enlighten me.

 

[StratTuner]

I don't understand how you knew what parts to order in this post:

Diagnosing the leak

I've ordered the NC700X 2012 water pump, and it arrived with NO O-rings or NO seals. What's more, I can't find the thing I ordered anymore on the website, so I don't know how to tell what I should have ordered in addition to the pump.

Tomorrow, when I take it apart, I'll have pictures of the rubber seals/gaskets/ O-rings that are in there now... I presume these need replacing.

How do I order them online...

My IQ drops by half the more discouraged I get.
Will someone please help me with this?

 

[dreamer]

Don't stress I think you got all you need as far as I can tell. This is actualy the whole WP unit, all seals and gaskets are inside Basically, it's a bolt-on job, you take the old one off and put this one on. It helps to take pictures as you go step-by-step so that you can refer to them if you forget what goes which way. Take it slow and easy and you'll make it

 

[rippin209]

I agree it looks like a while unit not just the half that has the impeller and bearing, so it's actually easier to change out, not harder. Don't worry. Cool down before you start. If you start when you stressed out you can make a simple mistake or forget to take a pic or remember something for reassembly