DCT Stuck In Gear

[dduelin]

The forward velocity is measured directly from the counter-shaft which is connected directly to the drive sprocket. The PCM also takes other parameters into consideration to determine when to make the appropriate shifts.

The front wheel pulse sensor says "whoa Nellie" to a 1st to 2nd shift it is not turning an appropriate speed compared to the rear wheel.

Alas, no wheelies, no running up through the gearbox on the center stand, and no way to dyno test a DCT bike.

 

[Brillot2000]

The front wheel pulse sensor says "whoa Nellie" to a 1st to 2nd shift it is not turning an appropriate speed compared to the rear wheel.

Alas, no wheelies, no running up through the gearbox on the center stand, and no way to dyno test a DCT bike.

That's a function of the ABS, not for indicating the speed on the speedo. The ABS is a sub-system of the PCM. The PCM takes data from many sources, not just one.

 

[kpinvt]

My bike has gotten stuck in second under a hard throttle where I had to click the upshift button to get it to change gears but, I've always been a short shifter anyways. I do not baby the throttle on this bike and still get in the low sixties MPG. I love this bike.

I'm all ears though, I want to know if there is anything I need to be concerned about. I hope the OP gets this figured out ASAP.

 

[dduelin]

That's a function of the ABS, not for indicating the speed on the speedo. The ABS is a sub-system of the PCM. The PCM takes data from many sources, not just one.

An engineer. Jeez. If the PCM thinks the speed as measured off the countershaft is appropriate to shift but the bike concludes it is not then the only pulsar ring indicates that it is not. There is no other way the bike knows it isn't moving. It's pretty simple really.

To the point - you can't shift from first to second unless the "front wheel is turning an appropriate speed".

 

[670cc]

The forward velocity is measured directly from the counter-shaft which is connected directly to the drive sprocket. The PCM also takes other parameters into consideration to determine when to make the appropriate shifts.

The front wheel pulse sensor says "whoa Nellie" to a 1st to 2nd shift it is not turning an appropriate speed compared to the rear wheel.

Alas, no wheelies, no running up through the gearbox on the center stand, and no way to dyno test a DCT bike.

An engineer. Jeez. If the PCM thinks the speed as measured off the countershaft is appropriate to shift but the bike concludes it is not then the only pulsar ring indicates that it is not. There is no other way the bike knows it isn't moving. It's pretty simple really.

To the point - you can't shift from first to second unless the "front wheel is turning an appropriate speed".

I believe dduelin is correct. Dyno testing the DCT was stymied by the fact that the front wheel was not turning. I don't believe the DCT will run through the gears without sensing front wheel spin.

And a minor point is that the speedometer speed is actually sensed from a gear on the transmission input shaft, not the countershaft. But, it is still proportional to rear wheel speed because the gear set used has the fixed gear on the countershaft. This can be easily seen in cutaways views of the transmission case.

 

[hojo]

I didn't hit the kill switch.
Engine was still ON while no response was felt from the throttle.
Battery tested fine.
Battery connections were fine.
Could be a possible electrical gremlin somewhere else with the DCT, or a gremlin with the DCT itself. Time may or may not offer a clue.

 

[lootzyan]

Engine Stop Switch (kill switch) does not turns off power (Serv. Manual p 4-4, 4-5). Only momentarily cuts off current to Fuel Cut Relay and to fuel injectors. The same time it sends signal to PCM/ECM to prevent engine to start, even if kill switch is ON again. PCM allows DCT to function. DCT downshift to 1st gear sequentially. Switching to neutral is done automatically when ignition switch is turned OFF & ON.
Honda anticipated that gears may not disengage and gives advise in Owner Manual:
"Turn the ignition switch to OFF and move the motorcycle back and forth slightly (to disengage the gears).
Turn the ignition switch to ON again and start the engine."
And again. Check electrical connection to DCT, shift motor, change oil. If this is mechanical malfunction inside of DCT, you wouldn't be able to ride.

 

[lootzyan]

...Engine was still ON while no response was felt from the throttle...

That would be something totally new. Engine running and not responding to throttle?
Throttle is not electronically controlled. I can't imagine something like this may happen in this model.

 

[Brillot2000]

An engineer. Jeez.

My oldest son calls me a "NERD", he's a basketball jock...

As I always say, if the shoe fits wear it...

 

[TCRider]

Interesting problem hojo, I hope you find the answer soon and with quick resolve. Please keep us posted... inquiring minds want to know.

 

[dduelin]

My oldest son calls me a "NERD", he's a basketball jock...

As I always say, if the shoe fits wear it...

My comment was uncalled for and I apologize for it. I could have replied to my point without resorting to snide remarks.

FWIW I have been described as "nerd adjacent".

 

[Brillot2000]

I believe dduelin is correct. Dyno testing the DCT was stymied by the fact that the front wheel was not turning. I don't believe the DCT will run through the gears without sensing front wheel spin.

And a minor point is that the speedometer speed is actually sensed from a gear on the transmission input shaft, not the countershaft. But, it is still proportional to rear wheel speed because the gear set used has the fixed gear on the countershaft. This can be easily seen in cutaways views of the transmission case.

See the Honda Diagram taken for the microfiche below shows there being 3 Speed Sensors (9) on the top of the crankcase. The one in the very back is for sensing the speed of the countershaft.



The image below shows the DCT Engine Cut-Away only shows one of the 3 speed sensors.



The other 2 Speed Senors on the upper part of the crankcase are sensing the speeds for the 2 clutches (Red & Blue) and their associated gears.

 

[Brillot2000]

My comment was uncalled for and I apologize for it. I could have replied to my point without resorting to snide remarks.

FWIW I have been described as "nerd adjacent".

No Worries!!!

I've been called worse. Just do not call me late to dinner...

 

[OriginalRocket]

...

I'm just here to say that's my photo from the Chicago Motorcycle Show! HA! I take it a google search rendered your results?

To the OP: I have no idea what went wrong. First I have heard of this issue, Keep in touch with Honda of America.
To everyone else: I object to ever hitting the kill switch on a motorcycle. Especially a JDM designed and built one, such as the NC700XD.

Reasoning: Only in the USA are motorcyclists taught to hit the kill switch before turning a motorcycle key off. It is well documented if you do not switch the DCT to neutral before turning the motorcycle off you may have problems starting the bike later. The most common issue is low battery power to move the transmission back to neutral before starting. To never have this issue, put the bike into neutral before turning the engine off.

I've never hit the kill switch on my NC700x DCT. Never will unless I need to use the emergency switch as intended.

In the grand scheme of things, turn off by key, turn off by emergency kill switch; Most likely doesn't mater. What is of importance is switching to neutral before power off.


I made a walk around video of the engine cut out too: DIRECT LINK

Backside view:

 

[lootzyan]

... you can't shift from first to second unless the "front wheel is turning an appropriate speed"....

You are absolutely right. Just tested.
With front wheel chocked and rear wheel lifted, engine running. You can shift from neutral to 1-st gear only, no matter in what mode: D, S or M. You can rev engine up to 6k RPM, rear wheel spinning but cannot force DCT to up-shift. Shifting to neutral only when read brake is applied and rear wheel stops spinning.
(quod erat demonstrandum)

 

[walawn]

As my first post on this site I hope I don't offend. I have a new 2015 DCT. I love the way it shifts smoother than I would do with manual. However I am now happy that I paid the extra $500 to get the Honda Extended Warranty for a total of 3 years.

I am going to practice hitting the kill switch while riding down my driveway at less then 10mph. What should I expect?

I also have a 2015 and paid the extra for the extended warranty as well. The technology is too new not to have some added protection.

 

[Brillot2000]

I'm just here to say that's my photo from the Chicago Motorcycle Show! HA! I take it a google search rendered your results?

Yes, that's how I found that image.

You took some great photos and you deserve the recognition.

 

[Brillot2000]

You are absolutely right. Just tested.
With front wheel chocked and rear wheel lifted, engine running. You can shift from neutral to 1-st gear only, no matter in what mode: D, S or M. You can rev engine up to 6k RPM, rear wheel spinning but cannot force DCT to up-shift. Shifting to neutral only when read brake is applied and rear wheel stops spinning.
(quod erat demonstrandum)

I think did the same test some time ago and came to the same conclusion. This was not that important to me and I may have dismissed it.

Honda created a bike that turns all those who ride it into "Semi-Safe" drivers. They cannot be blamed on this model to create a group of "Pink Mohawked" Wheely Wielding Hooligans.

 

[Brillot2000]

I also have a 2015 and paid the extra for the extended warranty as well. The technology is too new not to have some added protection.

That was my thoughts exactly when I bought NaNCy...

 

[hojo]

Interesting problem hojo, I hope you find the answer soon and with quick resolve. Please keep us posted... inquiring minds want to know.

From my first post, the bike was checked by the service dept (after I had already confirmed the kill switch was NOT activated by my hand) and everything checked (electronically) out except for the fact that the engine was stuck in third gear and the only way they could get it out of gear, was to removed the crankshaft cap and manually turn the crank. I could have picked the bike up yesterday but I take it to a shop further away from me due to the fact that I trust their mechanics more than the 2 other nearest dealers and I wouldn't get there before it closed. I can't get it today or tomorrow due to work, so it will have to wait until Thursday.