Clutch went out!

[TheEdge900]

Could it be this bike has weaker springs than it should so it has an easy clutch pull for beginners? Weak springs will cause glazed clutch plates also. Back in my Banshee hill racing days, with a little bit of mods you would start toasting the clutch, quick fix was heavier springs with no other changes to the clutch and it would last. just had to deal with the stronger pull at the handle.

 

[kpinvt]

Snipped...
Also if the standard NC gets ~50k miles on a clutch, assuming that OCR didn't burn his clutch up with oil, popping wheelies, trying to push start the bike, or by pouring sugar in the oil port (that is the kind of glaze we are talking about right?) does that mean a DCT will get ~100k miles?

Suppose only time will give the answers to these questions...

Here's hoping that is true.

 

[gboswellsac]

There are lots of good synthetic motorcycle oils. It wasn't ruined because it was synthetic unless it wasn't labeled for MC use. (No friction modifiers)

I second the synthetic not being only culprit as I've been using Mobil 1 since new and last 60k of the 108K miles on my Wing with Rotella 5/40 and I have not done a clutch job on any of my bikes. My X only has 15k so can't speak for it but my 1100 had 64k and the new owner still has not replaced the clutch and it has been using Mobil 1 since 10k when I bought it for my Dad. Old Can Ride has gone places and has done a lot of off-road experiences so may have had just bad luck. The good thing is how easy the X it is to fix it. Looking at the work necessary to adjust the valves and other simple stuff on the X compared to the BMW GS 800, sure makes the X purchase more livable.

 

[Old Can Ride]

I will have to say that folks do have all kinds of differing views on the topic of clutch plates being glazed by synthetic motorcycle oils.

The answer is everyone will believe what they have seen or from what someone else told them or their own experiences.

After being a Honda dealer for over 20 years, I heard these same disagreements for years. So, I talked to the Honda engineers and here is the answer I got from the guys who designed the motorcycles. If you look on page 11-4 in your service manual you will see "Engine oil mixed with molybdenum or graphite additive will cause your clutch plates to slip and that glazes the clutch plates". The official answer that different brands of motorcycle makers give is not to use a product with molybdenum or graphite additive. The clutch plates do turn blue when glazed by these additives.

Now oil is oil. Synthetic oil is just oil also, but it has additives that do make it a better oil. Unlike folks believe, you can mix the two, or change the oil that you are using at to the other type at any time. The additives in synthetic oils do make your engine run cooler, and the engine will last longer. In your auto the clutch is a dry clutch, so no oil touches the clutch plates. Now most motorcycles have wet clutches so to make the clutches to run cooler while soaked in the oil. I have had many folks tell me that their motorcycle shifted better when using synthetic oil, and I have to admit it does! If you are pulling something like a trailer or boat for distance in your auto or truck it is highly recommend that you use synthetic oil. Otherwise, the type of oil is really not that important in an auto. But the synthetic additive will make your auto engine or motorcycle engine last longer and run cooler.

I have also seen as many folks have stated that folks had no problem using the synthetic oils in their motorcycles, but I have also seen the times when the synthetic oils did glaze the clutch plates. I have seen when the weight factor carried has glazed the clutch plates on many different kinds of motorcycles. I have also seen when two of the same kinds of motorcycles have each have the opposite things happen. I do not know why, just know that I have for the most part only seen it happen when synthetic oils were use.

So, I have never seen any manufacture warrant a glazed clutch plate. The manufactures all say no "molybdenum or graphite additive". They do cover their tails, because it do sometimes happen.

Page 11-4 of NC700 Service Manual



Do what the manufacture recommends or not that is up to you.

 

[dduelin]

The oil in the picture meets every one of Honda's requirements or recommendations, including JASO MA. Unless you mixed an oil additive containing moly or graphite with it, the oil in the crankcase met requirements for maximum allowed percentage of friction modifiers.

Because there is so much misunderstanding of oil the manufacturers of have to label the containers clearly with markings consistent with standards. It isn't rocket science. Just looking at a bottle of oil gives all the information required to meet Honda's or anyone's specs.

As already pointed out there could have been other factors completely unrelated to oil that singly or in combination could have caused glazed clutch plates.

Edit: for speling and gramer

 

[Garnet]

I won't make a comment on the oil issue.

But after spending the last few decades on airhead BMWs that rarely past 50k on their expensive dry clutches, I'll be happy if my NCS gets the mileage that OCR has done. The ease of replacement and low cost of parts makes me a happy camper.

 

[ziggie]

So I only use what mother Honda says to use in the manual.maybe I will be covered then,hard to say.

 

[Old Can Ride]

According to Castrol the oil contains molybdenum.

Castrol Actevo 1 qt 20-50, 3+qts 10-40
Lab labeled viscosity as "Caution"
Metals (ppm)
Iron (Fe) 26
Chromium (Cr) <1
Lead (Pb) <1
Copper (Cu) 4
Tin (Sn) <1
Aluminium (Al) 5
Nickel (Ni) <1
Silver (Ag) <1
Titanium (Ti) <1
Vanadium (V) <1
Contaminants (ppm)
Silicon (Si) 3
Sodium (Na) 42
Potassium (K) <5
Coolant No No
Additives (ppm)
Magnesium (Mg) 869
Calcium (Ca) 1190
Barium (Ba) <1
Phosphorus (P) 1035
Zinc (Zn) 1258
Molybdenum (Mo) 7
Boron (B) 62
Contaminants
Water (%) <0.05
Physical Tests
Viscosity (cSt 100C) 11.1
Physical / Chemical
Base Number (mgKOH/g) 6.9

 

[dduelin]

According to Castrol the oil contains molybdenum.

Castrol Actevo 1 qt 20-50, 3+qts 10-40
Lab labeled viscosity as "Caution"
Metals (ppm)
Iron (Fe) 26
Chromium (Cr) <1
Lead (Pb) <1
Copper (Cu) 4
Tin (Sn) <1
Aluminium (Al) 5
Nickel (Ni) <1
Silver (Ag) <1
Titanium (Ti) <1
Vanadium (V) <1
Contaminants (ppm)
Silicon (Si) 3
Sodium (Na) 42
Potassium (K) <5
Coolant No No
Additives (ppm)
Magnesium (Mg) 869
Calcium (Ca) 1190
Barium (Ba) <1
Phosphorus (P) 1035
Zinc (Zn) 1258
Molybdenum (Mo) 7
Boron (B) 62
Contaminants
Water (%) <0.05
Physical Tests
Viscosity (cSt 100C) 11.1
Physical / Chemical
Base Number (mgKOH/g) 6.9

JASO MA means the oil is suited for motorcycle wet clutch use because it does not exceed allowable levels of molybdenum. Honda's spec for the NC700X includes JASO MA.

 

[davidc83]

Such a big discussion on a mechanical part going bad. Clutches go bad, some sooner than others

 

[showkey]

Such a big discussion on a mechanical part going bad. Clutches go bad, some sooner than others

Agree.......^^^^^^^^^^ it is just semantics BAD might imply a defect .........We could use the words worn out, just like brakes and tires ...........the clutch is a wear item. As David said sooner or later......

 

[davidc83]

Yea, instead of saying 'going bad' I probably should have stated 'no longer functioning as designed'.

 

[showkey]

^^^^^^^^^^ or outlived it's useable life

 

[fastring]

50k for a clutch sounds awesome to me! I've been using that same acetevo oil for the life of my NC so we'll see how long my clutch lasts.

 

[bigjeff]

50k for a clutch sounds awesome to me! I've been using that same acetevo oil for the life of my NC so we'll see how long my clutch lasts.

I use that oil too - get it at cycle gear

 

[dduelin]

50k for a clutch sounds awesome to me! I've been using that same acetevo oil for the life of my NC so we'll see how long my clutch lasts.

My ST1300 has 147,000 miles on the original clutch and I do a lot of slow speed work dragging the the throttle against the rear brake in the friction zone.

 

[BerndM]

OK then, back to the NC700 clutch replacement topic....
I have heard, seen and read that on quite a few bikes, you can actually replace the clutch WITHOUT draining the oil by simply gently laying the bike down on the opposite side as the clutch. Now the oil is all on the far side of the case and none will leak out.
Will this work on the NC?
Curious mind wants to know.

 

[TrackCage]

OK then, back to the NC700 clutch replacement topic....
I have heard, seen and read that on quite a few bikes, you can actually replace the clutch WITHOUT draining the oil by simply gently laying the bike down on the opposite side as the clutch. Now the oil is all on the far side of the case and none will leak out.
Will this work on the NC?
Curious mind wants to know.

Draining the oil is probably cheaper than any parts you may bend/break laying the bike down. It would be different if we were talking about a dirt bike

 

[The_Drifter]

The information Old Man Can Ride provided is very useful. At this time, it could indicate a possible problem with the clutch/oil or not. Time will tell. I remember a while back when a member here mentioned about the leakage around the water pump. Many of us were concerned about it, but most likely it was just a fluke. Then there was the quality of the original motorcyle chains (not the ones that were recalled). Many of us did not get the expected mileage out of those chains, and thanks to this forum, most of us when replacing the chain are not ordering the OEM chains.

 

[The_Drifter]

Could it be this bike has weaker springs.... Weak springs will cause glazed clutch plates also.

I have a Suzuki 800cc Intruder. It's a well known fact that the clutch springs are week for that model. Most clutch failures are because of these weak springs. When taken apart the clutch plates usually look good, and some owners don't even replace them. This bike was in production for over 20 years, and the problem still exists. They're aftermarket springs that are available for the Suzuki.

I'm curious if the clutch used in the NC700 is also used in any other Honda motorcycle and if so, which ones. Overall, Honda did a great job at reducing production costs of the Honda NC700 without sacrificing quality. Maybe they just went a little to cheap with the clutch.