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Why did the battery die?

dakotamiles

dakotamiles

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I have been riding my NC700X off and on since May - it sits for two weeks then I ride it either all day or 100 miles, then it sits again for another week or so. (Lucky me, I don't have to commute!) It's a 2012 model but I bought it new a year ago. I stored the battery inside last winter, connected to a trickle charger for part of the time. With the bike being this new I don't expect a lot of problems.

So I was pretty surprised when I went to ride it yesterday and the battery was flat. No lights, no nothing. The battery bolts were tight. I removed the battery, charged it up and it seems to be okay. The bike starts and runs just as nice as ever. I measured voltages of the battery after not - full charging - 12.7, during starting - 10 or 11 V, and while it was idling in the driveway - about 13.5 - 14 V. So the charging circuit seems to be working. Sitting there for a few hours, the battery voltage is gradually dropping to 12.5V at this point. I think the voltage can drop slightly as a battery sits after being charged, but I hope it doesn't keep going down. I'll report on the voltage after a day or two.

But - how could this happen?

I can think of two possibilities:
1) The last time I turned the key I didn't start the engine, I was just looking at the gauges for about 30 seconds. Then I turned it back off again. Four days later, there was no juice in the battery. Did a relay turn on and then not turn off again?? Should I make sure I start the engine when I turn the key on??

2) Last fall I installed the official Honda heated grips. But I haven't used them at all this summer and I believe (without knowing the details of the wiring) that they are connected to the switched power. They don't come on unless the ignition is on. I don't think I even touched the grips that time I turned the key.

Is there unswitched power somewhere on the bike? While I had the battery out for charging I checked with an ohmmeter and detected very high electrical resistance. But I know that's different than powering the bike up with 12 volts. The clock at least seems to need power continuously.

If anyone else has had an almost new battery die unexpectedly I'd like to know.
 
I've had my battery since I bought my bike in late 2012. This October will be
2 years, same battery.

I too have heated grips (not Honda grips) and they are designed to turn off when the ignition is
turned off. I have had no problems with them.

I have had a slight surge in a heavy downpour as if the bike was about to shut off.
That happened once.

Not sure what to tell you. Maybe have the battery tested?
 
The battery on my 2012 NC recently lost most of its power. I ride quite often, but the other day after not using the bike for about 10 days I tried to start it and nothing happened, just a faint clicking. No lights. The bike's electric system is stock, no electric accessories installed. I put a low amp charger on it over night and the next day it started right up. The clock still had the correct time, so the battery had not gone completely dead. After a 20 mile ride I put my trickle charger on the bike for the next couple of days. Since then I have ridden and started the bike multiple times without a problem. I still can't figure what caused the battery starting problem. And no, I had not left the ignition turned on for an extended period.
The key was in the kitchen drawer.
 
Most cycle batteries have a life span of only 3-5 years even if properly maintained in my experience. Your bike is a 2012 so it was built in mid 2011 using parts that were sourced from early '11 and batteries are fairly universal so I'd say it could be a battery that is approaching 4 years into its life cycle and getting questionable. I know there are batteries that go 10 years so no need to point that out, I'm simply stating that in my 30 years of experience dealing with bikes with batteries, 3-6 years in the normal lifespan I've had.

Simply checking the charging system is quite easy: take a multimeter on DC volts clipped to your battery and start the bike. At idle should be around 13 volts and should climb to around 14.5v by the time you reach say 3k RPM and not rise after that. In very basic terms if the charging voltage goes above 15v you have a bad regulator/rectifier (RR) and if the voltage never gets to the charging state of over 13v or so you have a bad stator. The complete process with the correct numbers and ranges is in the service manual but if the charging system is working its most likely a battery issue. Some say you should put a battery on a tender if it sits more than a week but I've gone 2-3 without issue.

If a new battery goes flat as well you'll want to look for the draw in the system but hooking up the meter in the amperage setting and running it in series with the negative battery cable. Read the current draw on the system on the meter and pull fuses until you see it drop off and identify the circuit and problem with it and your good. Its actually a fairly simple process.

Mike
 
You probably need a battery. I bet if you perform a load test it would fail. During the winter leave your battery in the bike on a trickle charger. Batteries like it cold and with it on a trickle charger it won't freeze. After you do your load test and if it fails buy a AGM style battery. They cost a little more but last longer and perform better.
 
It's not easy to maintain properly a battery to last her maximum lifetime.

Proper maintenance is to keep the battery FULLY charged ALL of the time (OCV: 13.0V) to stop sulfation.

In my case that was impossible because of my daily short trips (about 12' and half of the time was on traffic lights), not to mention parasitic loads... To fully charge a battery we need much more time (about 30' or more).

Also, occasionally charging doesn't help, and some chargers may dry the battery by overcharging. (Forget trickle chargers!)

One more factor is how fresh is a factory activated battery and how it was maintained by the seller... The only way to check the freshness is by checking with the manufacturer directly, giving them the coded production date.

Check the http://www.yuasabatteries.com/pdfs/TechManual_2014.pdf for more detail about battery maintenance.

(PS: The only way to solve my problem was the right LiFePO4 battery. There is no sulfation and it's fully charged in just 10'!).
 
Gosh, I just don't like the idea of replacing the battery on a bike I bought only a year ago. But I guess I'd better have it tested. The bike did sit at the dealer for a year and I don't know how much they took care of the battery.

In the meantime, I did a couple more tests. After recharging and going for a ride, the battery voltage was at 13.00V, and it dropped to 12.96V over the course of two days. I put an ammeter between the negative pole of the battery and the ground wire, and found that something (probably the clock) was drawing about 0.1mA. At that rate it would take quite awhile to drain the battery.

Then I set the ammeter on its maximum setting, 10A, and turned on the key. (I just switched the power on and didn't try to start the engine). The current was about 9A while the fuel system was pressuring up, and then it sat at about 6.5A due mostly to the headlamp, I would guess. Then I switched it off again and the current didn't return to zero where it had started but it dropped down to 0.1A! That's 100 milliamps, or 1000 times the current I read before. Now this is just the limit of resolution of my ammeter when it's on the 10A setting so that final digit is suspect. But when I broke the connection and reconnected, the reading didn't go back up to 0.1A but remained at 0.0A. If these numbers are meaningful, then it's possible that my battery was drained by something in the bike that didn't shut off. But when you break the battery connection, whatever it is does shut off.

Now I have two more tests to do - I have to go check that meter with a known current in the range of 100 milliamps and see if it can read them, and I had better get my battery checked. But at least the bike starts now! And this episode has prompted me to install the leads for the battery minder.

Ste7ios, how do I know if the trickle charger can damage my battery? I bought a Battery Minder thinking it was a helpful thing.
 
dakotamiles said:
Gosh, I just don't like the idea of replacing the battery on a bike I bought only a year ago. But I guess I'd better have it tested. The bike did sit at the dealer for a year and I don't know how much they took care of the battery.

In the meantime, I did a couple more tests. After recharging and going for a ride, the battery voltage was at 13.00V, and it dropped to 12.96V over the course of two days. I put an ammeter between the negative pole of the battery and the ground wire, and found that something (probably the clock) was drawing about 0.1mA. At that rate it would take quite awhile to drain the battery.

Then I set the ammeter on its maximum setting, 10A, and turned on the key. (I just switched the power on and didn't try to start the engine). The current was about 9A while the fuel system was pressuring up, and then it sat at about 6.5A due mostly to the headlamp, I would guess. Then I switched it off again and the current didn't return to zero where it had started but it dropped down to 0.1A! That's 100 milliamps, or 1000 times the current I read before. Now this is just the limit of resolution of my ammeter when it's on the 10A setting so that final digit is suspect. But when I broke the connection and reconnected, the reading didn't go back up to 0.1A but remained at 0.0A. If these numbers are meaningful, then it's possible that my battery was drained by something in the bike that didn't shut off. But when you break the battery connection, whatever it is does shut off.

Now I have two more tests to do - I have to go check that meter with a known current in the range of 100 milliamps and see if it can read them, and I had better get my battery checked. But at least the bike starts now! And this episode has prompted me to install the leads for the battery minder.

Ste7ios, how do I know if the trickle charger can damage my battery? I bought a Battery Minder thinking it was a helpful thing.
Click to expand...

Excellent post! Thank you!

You've to wait at least two hours for a meaningful reading, and it must be always the OCV (Open Circuit Voltage). 12.96V after a couple of days is not bad at all! Your battery is in good condition! (But you've sulfation.)

0.1mA is normal for this bike according to the service manual. 0.1A is too much! But it's possible that the NC may have a bug... Do you trust your multimeter? Usually only €€€ multimeters can be trusted, like Fluke.

First of all a charger must stop when the battery is full (14.4V) and then apply a float charge when the voltage drops. Second, is really complicated! I've to check my notes. BatteryMINDer looks like a descent maintainer and not a dummy trickle charger which overcharges a battery. What model do you've?
 
A quality clamp inductive DC. ammeter would be the best way to test for the parasitic draw. There is real possibility that meter used in post # 7 does not auto range down unless it is disconnected????????
BUT
If it does have a 100ma draw after shut down would indicate a control unit is staying active.
If this draw condition can be reproduced............get it to happen again........and start unplugging devices until it goes away.
Speedometer and ECU would be prime suspects. BUT only if the test equipment ( meter) is giving correct information ....note that's a BIG BUT.
 
Thanks for your thoughts, everyone.

I took my battery to the parts store and was told that it certainly provides enough amps so the battery is strong yet. I don't know if their device tested for internal leakage currents but the machine said "Good" on the readout. And the battery has been holding a charge pretty well, it seems.

I also unhooked the ground wire and put a shunt wire between the battery and the ground wire. Then I put my ammeter across the terminals as well (battery to ground). I turned the key on, waited until the bike was on and ready to go, (but I didn't try to start the engine) and then shut the key off again. Then I removed the shunt wire. My ammeter, able to read to the nearest millamp, read 13mA. That reading persisted for about 20 seconds, then whatever it was shut off and the current went to zero for all intents and purposes. This same thing happened a couple of times so I suspect that there is an electronic device that takes awhile to shut down.

So I still don't know what went wrong but I think I'm going to just ride my bike until something happens again.

To ste7ios, I have a BatteryMinder Plus but I don't see my model on the BatteryMinder website. It looks like this one but for 12 volts. I think I'll be using it more from now on.
 
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I have a 2012 and my battery did the same thing to me after not riding for a little over a week. It was not on a battery tender at the time. I had one but thought I only needed to use it when the bike was going sit for an extended (weeks) period of time. I immediately plugged in the battery tender and let the bike sit overnight. The next day I took it to the Honda shop to have the battery checked out and everything checked out OK. Now the bike stays on the battery tender whenever it is in the garage, and I've had no further problems.
 
After reading two posts like this, I went out to go to work and my battery is dead.

2012 bike with 11,000+ miles.

I just rode it fine 2-3 days ago.
 
One thing to keep in mind is that with a modern fuel injected, "computer" controlled bike there are thresholds where the bike simply won't start or refuse to start because the bikes electrical system thinks the battery is dead and won't allow it to run. Which is very much unlike the old days when you could kick start something or even bump start it with a very marginal battery for years. As well, modern motorcycle charging systems are now pretty much float chargers and won't do heavy duty charging so if the battery has run down a lot no amount of riding will bring it fully back up to a full charge.

Not saying this is everyone's issue but I'm reading more and more about modern bikes (and cars) simply refusing to start after sitting for only a few days and externally charging the battery takes care of the issue. But as I mentioned earlier in this thread we are now starting to see this bike get to the age that the batteries will start getting questionable (3-5 years) so be on the lookout and use a Battery Tender if it'll sit more than a week.

Mike
 
danrev said:
I have a 2012 and my battery did the same thing to me after not riding for a little over a week. It was not on a battery tender at the time. I had one but thought I only needed to use it when the bike was going sit for an extended (weeks) period of time. I immediately plugged in the battery tender and let the bike sit overnight. The next day I took it to the Honda shop to have the battery checked out and everything checked out OK. Now the bike stays on the battery tender whenever it is in the garage, and I've had no further problems.
Click to expand...
I just had the identical experience leaving my 2012 off for one week.
 
Thanks everyone.

I'm not experienced with motorcycle batteries but it seems odd that a battery that is only a few years old will drop below the threshold voltage after only a week of sitting. Unless it is faulty or has been mistreated. But the tester in the shop said my battery was fine - so - ? (Does anyone know the threshold voltage below which the computer throws in the towel?)

In the meantime I took my NC on 1200 mile trip and had no problems. Of course, the battery was charging for all those miles. But it sat for 4 days without being started. However, from now on I'm going to be superstitious and not turn the key unless I actually start the engine shortly afterwards. And I guess I'll use the battery minder more often.

Mostly I'm hoping I don't have the same problem for another year or two.
 
I had a similar experience with my battery in my 2102 nc700 with the dct. I learned to my embarrassment that I had failed to hook up the negative terminal fully and was just hanging on by a hair. This was done when I took the battery out to access a line in for the trickle charger. My mechanic found the trouble right away but he still tested the battery to rule out a bad cell but it turned out to be me that was the problem. He tightened up the terminals correctly and admonished me (correctly) to put my tools in a box and leave them there unless there was a dire emergency at hand. I might follow that advice. I do keep the trickle charger on any time I anticipate more than about 5 days of non-use which happens almost never since I ride this bike every day out here in California.
 
The testing that was done at the parts store was done with an electronic battery analyzer that are know to give false reading. We have one at work and it gives inaccurate results. The proper way to test is with a battery load tester (carbon pile) applying a load of 1/2 the CCA rating for the battery for a period of 15 seconds. Battery voltage should not fall below 9.6V while on load.

You're over thinking this. Change the battery and be done with it. Thinking that you won't have the problem for a couple of years may end up leaving you stranded. You'll wish you had spent the $80-100 on a new battery.
 
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