Well it finally happened! (GRAPHIC VIDEO AND IMAGES)

[n30r3l0ad3d]

The tires are the stock Metzeler Z8's. The front is the original tire with 13,000 miles on it. No flat spots or crown hardly at all. The rear is fairly new with 2,000 miles or so.

This is now the 2nd video I've seen on the forums with people's bikes going out from under them without warning. Of course I got slammed for suggesting that the Z8's aren't everything they are talked up to be, but after this almost happened to me twice in wet conditions... I'm sorry, but these Z8's are starting to scare the crap out of me. Glad you are ok!

 

[L.B.S.]

Ouch! Sorry for you, mate

Does happen awfully fast, eh?

Pegs (the spring loaded folding kind we have) can scrape a heck of a lot without doing any levering the tires off the ground. It's usually only once you go past the folding point and they "bottom out", or you fold to the point of decking out other hard parts like brackets, mufflers etc., that evil occurs. Granted, I concede that sometimes it's a very fine line between peg scraping and "oops too far", lol, but I've beveled a gazillion peg feelers into oblivion, with nary a crash caused by them being abused.

In my experience, most pegs fold back further than you can lean, so it's always something else that causes unwanted low siding due to hard part hitting, chopping the throttle, or tarmac surface problems (oil, diesel, sand, bumps, off camber, etc., etc.) combined with speed, which makes things happen faster than you can react.

It looked and sounded like you initially scraped the peg, quickly followed by something else more substantial, levered the bike, and washed out the front tire.

The scrapings look sore, heal up quick! (and get some boots and pants, right? )

 

[TonySilver]

Glad your injuries were not very severe. Hurts to see a fellow rider go down like that. Thank you for your video. Turns like those seem always tricky to me, in regards of how to read the proper speed to go into them, but I am a newbie.

Get better!

 

[wozza]

Thank goodness you only received some road rash and it wasn't worse. I know you must be in quite a bit of pain though....

 

[JamesD]

Ouch! Sorry for you, mate

Does happen awfully fast, eh?

Pegs (the spring loaded folding kind we have) can scrape a heck of a lot without doing any levering the tires off the ground. It's usually only once you go past the folding point and they "bottom out", or you fold to the point of decking out other hard parts like brackets, mufflers etc., that evil occurs. Granted, I concede that sometimes it's a very fine line between peg scraping and "oops too far", lol, but I've beveled a gazillion peg feelers into oblivion, with nary a crash caused by them being abused.

In my experience, most pegs fold back further than you can lean, so it's always something else that causes unwanted low siding due to hard part hitting, chopping the throttle, or tarmac surface problems (oil, diesel, sand, bumps, off camber, etc., etc.) combined with speed, which makes things happen faster than you can react.

It looked and sounded like you initially scraped the peg, quickly followed by something else more substantial, levered the bike, and washed out the front tire.

The scrapings look sore, heal up quick! (and get some boots and pants, right? )

I had my shoe wedge between the peg rubber and bike on my VFR. It lifted a tire off the ground, the bike dropped away a bit, my shoe got unwedged and the bike regained traction. Scared the hell out of me but I didn't wipe out.

 

[SergeantChuck]

Sorry about your accident. Glad you have nothing broken although your going to be sore for a while. What's most important is your well being. The bike can be repaired.

I appreciate your posting the video. I have watched it several times. It honestly looks like your coming into the turn nicely and setup fairly well. You didn't really look to have that severe of an attack angle. Could be the camera.

I have pushed my NCX much further than what I saw in your video without draging a foot peg. I was banking her very hard last weekend and nobrubs. I just went outside and leaned the bike over trying to touch the foot peg. You were no where near the angle I just had the bike. I had my wife take these photos because watching your video made me nervous. I was really laying her down last weekend. Wanted to see how close I had come to dragging. In these pictures my foot peg is still 2" from the ground.





Curious thing is there was definitely a dragging sound. Could the noise possibly have been the front tire sliding on loose gravel? It does sound like metal on cement thought. Do you have foward foot pegs that hang low? I know some guys add those.

Again Im sorry about your accident but glad your not severly injured.

Galaxy S4

 

[ziggie]

Wow sorry to see this.glad you ok.as another member said i would have had alot of video words edit.think i will start looking for riding pants.i just went out today and got a new pair of jeans for riding.heal fast.

 

[kaibil1]

Thanks for sharing the video....I've never been in a road like that (where is it?) here in Cali. I will be careful and I'm glad the injuries are not worse. Hope you and your bike get better soon!

 

[hozabah]

After seeing slow moes and close ups of the road surface (nice shots btw) I'd opine your low side had three things going for it....

> the tar snake initiated the slide out of the front tire.....

> the polished cobbles in the turn reduced the friction on the contact patch

> the 13k front tire didn't help matters

saw a friend go down last fall in front of me... quick as a blink

old cold tires and polished cobbles... snakes weren't out that day

 

[bonnielover]

Sorry about your incident. Get better quick and thanks for posting.

Seems to me there may be some additional "forensic evidence" available. Check the bottom of the pegs and side stand for scratches or tar. Also, the edge of the tires for tar. And finally, study the road to see if peg or other hard parts may have touched something. If it was the tar, there may be some smearing/streaking at the far edge of the tire snake, if that makes sense. 12K miles is a lot. Were the tires cold? It sure looks like it happened on that one perpendicular snake. I'm curious if any of our members know in this scenario, and most scenarios where there's a low end, if it is typically the front tire or rear tire that's generating the most friction on the road (assuming a steady velocity, no braking or acceleration forces) and is usually the culprit? Thanks.

 

[wgwgoldwing]

Glad you were not hurt real bad and thanks for posting.

Listen to the audio at the 20 second mark. You were leaned over and decelerating in the corner. That certainly didn't help things. You should be gradually rolling on the throttle through the entire corner. Slowing while leaned will shift the weight rather that keep it evenly balanced on both axles. It also will decrease your ground clearance by allowing the bike to fall into the corner. I'm not saying this was the cause, just an observation and something to be aware of.


WGW

 

[Cyclerosis]

Really glad you're OK after this, other than the nasty bruises and road rash. Like Sgt Chuck demonstrates though, I'm inclined to agree your lean angle wasn't excessive enough to scrape a peg. It appears to me, that smoothed out pebbly cement surface and road cracks would have contributed significantly to losing traction. I also made notice of the 20 mph sharp left turn sign posted just prior to the bike dropping. If the bike slid 100 feet, do you think you may have entered the turn a bit too fast? You've done a great service to us all by posting this video to study.

 

[bonnielover]

WGW makes a good point. What gear were you in and how fast do you think you were going?

 

[docb91b]

Glad you were not hurt real bad and thanks for posting.

Listen to the audio at the 20 second mark. You were leaned over and decelerating in the corner. That certainly didn't help things. You should be gradually rolling on the throttle through the entire corner. Slowing while leaned will shift the weight rather that keep it evenly balanced on both axles. It also will decrease your ground clearance by allowing the bike to fall into the corner. I'm not saying this was the cause, just an observation and something to be aware of.


WGW

I think Goldwing makes a good point. It sounds like your bike was decelerating when you were leaning. Also, I noticed you were going 55 MPH entering the turn (and it was posted 20 MPH).

Glad you are OK and I have learned a lot from your video.

 

[pismocycleguy]

I have pushed my NCX much further than what I saw in your video without draging a foot peg. I was banking her very hard last weekend and nobrubs. I just went outside and leaned the bike over trying to touch the foot peg. You were no where near the angle I just had the bike. I had my wife take these photos because watching your video made me nervous. I was really laying her down last weekend. Wanted to see how close I had come to dragging. In these pictures my foot peg is still 2" from the ground.
Curious thing is there was definitely a dragging sound. Could the noise possibly have been the front tire sliding on loose gravel? It does sound like metal on cement thought. Do you have foward foot pegs that hang low? I know some guys add those.
Galaxy S4

You forgot to include your added body weight, and added force/weight that centripetal force adds to collapse the suspension and lower the clearance between the foot peg and the road surface. You are comparing static forces to dynamic forces.

 

[NCer]

It looks like a decreasing radius turn, and as you banked more your left foot peg touched down and raised the front tire loosing contact with the asphalt. It sounds like a metal scraping asphalt just before you begin to slide with increased sound of metal sliding on asphalt. Happy to know you weren't injured severely.
I've had the same experience with jeans, tennis shoes, and a windbreaker jacket. Ouch!

+1. Very sorry, Hope you get well soon. Those nasty burns do hurt! Hang in there, bro!

 

[SergeantChuck]

You forgot to include your added body weight, and added force/weight that centripetal force adds to collapse the suspension and lower the clearance between the foot peg and the road surface. You are comparing static forces to dynamic forces.

I agree which is why I was leaning on the front end compressing the front forks the best I could. I know what I did outside the house would not represent exactly his senario. I was primarily looking to give myself an idea. Like I had stated. I was out last weekend and was really dragging a knee. Quit a bit lower than what it looked like in his video. It was the first time I had taken the NCX out for a serious ride on some back roads. I really pushed the limits of the bike and never drug a ped. Not saying it isn't possible. I was just trying to suggest he did not look that low and this bike sits up pretty high. It takes quite an angle to reach those pegs. And maybe he was there. Hard to tell from the video, just doesn't look like it. In my opinion.

 

[Josh H]

Wow! Thanks everyone for the best wishes and very useful information! Let me try to answer some of your questions....

The Tire: Yes, the front tire has a lot of miles on it. However, because of the high milage, I inspect it meticulously. Still plenty of tread life (I'll check the actual depth tomorrow) and hardly a road crown at all. Still very round. The pressure was checked earlier that morning; front at 36psi and rear at 40psi (40psi because I seldom ride 2 up and only weigh around 165lbs. The last tire was ran at 42psi and the contact patch was more narrow than I would like). Both tires were warm from riding several hours before the accident. I have felt both the front and rear tire give way a few times in sand, loose gravel, and in water but has always regained traction the instant it meets pavement. I’ve even felt it slide off of a tar snake and regain traction. Never had a problem with traction on these tires.

The Road: As I previously stated, I had been riding for several hours before the accident, but on a road with a different surface. It was a fresh asphalt road with no cracks or tar snakes. Once I turned on to the “road in question” I noticed all the cracks and tar. I slowed down from my previous pace because of this. I purposely rode over the tar to see if it was soft, however most of the beginning of the road was shaded from the sun. If you notice in the video the corner was not shaded. This leads me to believe the tar was softer in this corner than where previously tested.

The Speed: I did see the 20mph sign which is why I decelerated to 41mph just as I entered the corner. I had been taking 50-55mph corners all day before this so I was very comfortable at that speed. Entering the turn I was not on the throttle as I was still decelerating. I tend to decelerate through the beginning of a corner and accelerate just through and out of the apex.

The Lean: I most definitely was not leaning enough to scrape the peg. In fact, I have yet (well HAD yet) to scrap the peg on this bike at all. And, even if I was leaning enough to scrape, the corner was banked. Also, I listened to the audio of the clip just before the crash and really analyzed it. I hear the scrape of metal just a split second after I see the bike start to fall from the helmet cam POV. Watching the audio waveform as I was editing the video I could really see this.

That being said, this only leads me to assume I got snake bit.

To quote my wonderful wife, regarding protective boots and pants, “I know what you’re getting for Christmas!” Personally, I don’t think I can wait till Christmas...

 

[Naked_Duc]

I have pushed my NCX much further than what I saw in your video without draging a foot peg. I was banking her very hard last weekend and nobrubs. I just went outside and leaned the bike over trying to touch the foot peg. You were no where near the angle I just had the bike. I had my wife take these photos because watching your video made me nervous. I was really laying her down last weekend. Wanted to see how close I had come to dragging. In these pictures my foot peg is still 2" from the ground.

View attachment 8355

View attachment 8356

Curious thing is there was definitely a dragging sound. Could the noise possibly have been the front tire sliding on loose gravel? It does sound like metal on cement thought. Do you have foward foot pegs that hang low? I know some guys add those.

A couple of things, you are not on the bike so the suspension is not compressed. Secondly, when the bike is corner, the centripetal force would compress the suspension even further to reduce ground clearance. With how softly the NCX is sprung, it wouldn't be difficult to lose all that ground clearance and drag the foot peg.

 

[foreveraboy]

Its been a productive thread. Thanks Josh for sharing and everyone for the discussion.
It really pointed out some important safety riding tricks, especially on a curve, as well as equipments.

Stay safe folks. Have fun with the bike and keep in mind and heart those loved ones waiting for you coming back safely.