Totaled CTX700N / DCT operating by itself?

[Brillot2000]

DCT has no control over throttle. 100% it is caused by the rider. An unwilling error which causes panic and something like whiskey throttle.

It's not difficult. The gear is engaged, the engine is very strong at low RPMs... I have done it several times. So when I'm maneuvering I always turn the D/S-N switch to N.

I have to agree with Ste7ios on this one. I've made a couple of mistakes with twisting the throttle at low speeds and an idle at a complete stop. The bike well response to throttle quite quickly. It is best to maneuver the bike in "N", such as backing out of a parking space. I also twist the throttle back to "Fully Closed" when breaking as a precaution. Having the throttle slightly open will cause the bike to want to go forward, even when applying the breaks.

 

[dduelin]

Breaks, brakes, Brachts. One is a place or name, one slows rotating disks, one is luck or tough depending on the circumstance.

 

[ld_rider]

As for choosing DCT, it is not because she is inexperienced, for example she drove her BMW thumper from Rotterdam to Moskow (parked on the Red Square) and back without any problems despite the road conditions and Russian traffic.

Would like to hear more about that adventure. Has she written about it? Do you have a link? Pictures?

TIA

 

[L.B.S.]

Does a DCT bike creep forward with no throttle applied? You come up to a traffic light and stop. If you take your hand or foot off the brakes, does the bike just sit there, or can it start slowly going forward? (obviously discounting any slope)

When the bike is first started from cold, there has to be a safegaurd against the high idle rpm making the bike move forward. Is this *only* the parking brake that prevents this from happening? Will the bike start up with the parking brake disengaged, or is there a safety interlock feature not allowing this?

If there is, what happens if you start it up, and then immediately release the parking brake? Will the bike jolt forward off the side stand?

I cannot conceive of that being allowed to happen! I'm thinking there would *have* to be some kind of TPS (throttle position sensor) via the throttle body injector/airbox intake manifold butterfly, needing physical rotation.

If this were not the case, I would be equally as baffled that I haven't heard of thousands of lawsuits and reports of hapless newbies having their DCT bikes flinging themselves willy nilly into walls, intersections, houses, etc. lol

 

[Fuzzy]

On flat ground and stopped with no throttle the bike does not move. At startup it is in neutral so no problem.

Today I paid some extra attention to mine. It idles witb one rpm bar past 1000, so roughly 1200 rpm. If ligbtly on throttle the clutch engages and it can get to 5 or 6 mph before another bar appears on rpm indication. There is little room between idle and clutch engaged.

What I don't know is what tells the clutch to engage, if it is throttle position or rpm. Sometimes moving slow in 1st gear and no throttle I lose engine braking as if clutch disengaged.

 

[OriginalRocket]

Does a DCT bike creep forward with no throttle applied? You come up to a traffic light and stop. If you take your hand or foot off the brakes, does the bike just sit there, or can it start slowly going forward? (obviously discounting any slope)

When the bike is first started from cold, there has to be a safegaurd against the high idle rpm making the bike move forward. Is this *only* the parking brake that prevents this from happening? Will the bike start up with the parking brake disengaged, or is there a safety interlock feature not allowing this?

Normally no, but I have noticed with a 40 weight oil, and a cold engine, the revs are high enough to make pushing the motorcycle backwards impossible, and waddling forward with feet very easy on flat ground when you are idling in first gear. I've never experienced the motorcycle taking off, or actively pulling away at idle though.

 

[OriginalRocket]

On flat ground and stopped with no throttle the bike does not move. At startup it is in neutral so no problem.

Today I paid some extra attention to mine. It idles witb one rpm bar past 1000, so roughly 1200 rpm. If ligbtly on throttle the clutch engages and it can get to 5 or 6 mph before another bar appears on rpm indication. There is little room between idle and clutch engaged.

What I don't know is what tells the clutch to engage, if it is throttle position or rpm. Sometimes moving slow in 1st gear and no throttle I lose engine braking as if clutch disengaged.

Yup, below 10 mph the clutch slips. You get absolutely no engine braking.

start bike on center stand, click into 1st gear with the brakes applied, let brakes go, and watch the rear wheel spin, and speedometer register around 9-11 mph. As the engine warms, this slows down to about a 3-6 mph rear wheel free spin. I assume this is hydrolic drag, since the clutches are not engaged but the plates are close enough to transfer energy through the oil.

 

[pahondafan]

I'm glad she wasn't hurt.
The NC is taller than the CTX so I can only reach the ground with my toe, not enough to push the bike around without power. Because of that I am very methodical when it comes to stopping. If I am at a light and in gear I have either the front or rear brake applied. If I have to stop to adjust my gloves or deposit letters in the mailbox I put the bike in neutral (or turn it off) and apply the parking brake. I have a rule that if the engine is turned off the kickstand goes down. I've noticed that when you watch videos of riders dropping their bikes the first thing that happens is that the engine revs. Obviously that is because of the natural tendency to grab the grips when the bike starts falling.

 

[John Doo]

The Moscow tour was organised by this organisation: http://www.ride-onmotortours.com/common/pages/moskou/moskou.htm. This company has a concept were they take care of all the paperwork for a visa, booking sleeping places and they will assist when you run into difficulties. The great thing is that you do not have to ride as a group, you ride from A to B as you like, you can even skip B and decide to to you rest some were else as long as you let them know that. The only obligation is that you help other members when they run into difficulties and you are the nearest by, they will take over helping out as soon as possible. We did the tour when it was 200 years after Napoleon tried to defeat the Russians and visited a lot of sites the marked important moments in Napoleons campaign.

Here are some pictures, we do not have a blog or something like that.

 

[ste7ios]

I have to disagree with a lot of the above statements. I own a 2013 DCT that is going into the shop next week for an issue with high revs on start-up. I have been riding off and on since 1968, so I don't think I qualify as a "inexperienced rider".

The machine, with hands not even on the throttle, will occasionally ( maybe one start out of ten ) jump up to around 2500 rpm when being started. It can be immediately throttled back. It happens on both cold and warm start-ups. I'm thinking that it is definitely a module issue, but as it's under warranty, I'm going to let the dealer handle it.

Every vehicle with a catalytic converter will rev-up to warm the catalyst as soon as possible.

I just realized that you're talking about 2,500 rpm!!! This is obviously not normal and you must check it ASAP with your dealer. It must be a problem of PCM (Power Control Module) or a sensor, not DCT.

 

[670cc]

The machine, with hands not even on the throttle, will occasionally ( maybe one start out of ten ) jump up to around 2500 rpm when being started. It can be immediately throttled back. It happens on both cold and warm start-ups.

If no hands are on the throttle when it jumps to 2500 rpm, how do you "throttle it back"? Turn the throttle grip? From your description it sounds simply like a sticking throttle tube or sticking/binding cable. If the engine controller caused the high rpm by way of it's idle air control, you would not be able to "throttle it back".

When this happens, are the handlebars turned to lock, perhaps causing a throttle cable bind?

 

[Mike Cash]

In the case of the rider who did have hand on the throttle, did she happen to have anything like this mounted on the throttle?

 

[John Doo]

No she didn't have a throttle rocker installed.

 

[L.B.S.]

No she didn't have a throttle rocker installed.

I'm still thinking it would have had to be something along the lines of sticking throttle cables or something, physically making the bike rev higher versus a software glitch, but do please keep us all up to date with any and all new discoveries with this, if possible!

Don't be discouraged by all of us doubters; but at the same time, please realize that the symptoms and results are very odds defying

 

[Vescol]

Yup, below 10 mph the clutch slips. You get absolutely no engine braking.

start bike on center stand, click into 1st gear with the brakes applied, let brakes go, and watch the rear wheel spin, and speedometer register around 9-11 mph. As the engine warms, this slows down to about a 3-6 mph rear wheel free spin. I assume this is hydrolic drag, since the clutches are not engaged but the plates are close enough to transfer energy through the oil.

Yup, and if you let the bike idle for a couple of minutes in 'D' or 'S' on centerstand the ABS warning light turns on. This has happened to me a couple of times.

Note to self - "Use Neutral more often"

 

[Fuzzy]

71F when I went outside this morning. Started it up with no hand on throttle and rpm blipped to but 1600 immediately came back to 1400 and then in only a few seconds down to 1200.

ABS light is always on until both wheels on the ground and moving above something like 6 or 8 mph.

 

[bduffey]

If no hands are on the throttle when it jumps to 2500 rpm, how do you "throttle it back"? Turn the throttle grip? From your description it sounds simply like a sticking throttle tube or sticking/binding cable. If the engine controller caused the high rpm by way of it's idle air control, you would not be able to "throttle it back".

When this happens, are the handlebars turned to lock, perhaps causing a throttle cable bind?

I've had it happen both with the bars turned over and while straight. It will reduce with a simple turn of the throttle.

 

[John Doo]

I'm still thinking it would have had to be something along the lines of sticking throttle cables or something, physically making the bike rev higher versus a software glitch, but do please keep us all up to date with any and all new discoveries with this, if possible!

Don't be discouraged by all of us doubters; but at the same time, please realize that the symptoms and results are very odds defying

There is very little doubt that it was human error, and it has been accepted by her that something she did was causing the accident. Period. Basta.

However the question remains if the DCT distinguishes between a rise in rpm's coming from the throttle or coming from the mechanism that handles the stationary rpm's. In this thread rising of rpm without throttle usages above the threshold of the DCT (1450 rpm) is mentioned. If the DCT doesn't care and only sees a rise in rpm's as the signal to engage then there is a possible safety issue. I'm of the opinion that all DCT users, no matter if they doubt the riders that were involved in these accidents, will benefit from knowing the answer to this question.

 

[Brillot2000]

There is very little doubt that it was human error, and it has been accepted by her that something she did was causing the accident. Period. Basta.

However the question remains if the DCT distinguishes between a rise in rpm's coming from the throttle or coming from the mechanism that handles the stationary rpm's. In this thread rising of rpm without throttle usages above the threshold of the DCT (1450 rpm) is mentioned. If the DCT doesn't care and only sees a rise in rpm's as the signal to engage then there is a possible safety issue. I'm of the opinion that all DCT users, no matter if they doubt the riders that were involved in these accidents, will benefit from knowing the answer to this question.

I have a friend that works at American Honda in Torrance, CA. When I was shopping around and I was stuck on the fence between the Manual or DCT and the NC700X and CTX700. He told me that engines are exactly the same, however they are both "Mapped" quite differently in their ECMs (Man) and PCMs (DCT) regarding how the engine behaves.

With that being said, the “Firmware” that’s inside these two bikes ECMs or PCMs are like apples and oranges. We cannot compare them directly to each other. They will have to be treated as two separate products with their own possible issues. You should report any of your concerns directly to American Honda - Powersports, not your local dealer.

I am not a company representative nor affiliated with American Honda in anyway.