Tips, Tricks, Advice learned from experience

[Ackme]

Motorcyclists: always blaming the cage drivers ; }

I'm still going to blame the cagers. /looking for the upside in the post-fact world.

 

[Hank]

At what point do you begin to accelerate? Not a direct question, but kind of a general question for the group to see what folks think.

One answer from David Hougn is, once you have leaned over as far you are going to, apply throttle.

 

[DCTFAN]

At what point do you begin to accelerate? Not a direct question, but kind of a general question for the group to see what folks think.

Ok, I'll bite: As soon as the bike is "settled".

Settled, meaning the front and rear suspension are both at maximum compression.
The bike reaching the apex of the turn.
But due to some lag time, even though I try to twist the throttle as early as I dare,
I tend to 'coast' around the apex and accelerate after the apex.

 

[dduelin]

As early and as soon as possible which is dependent on entry speed and lean angle necessary to make the corner at the chosen entry speed which is dependent on radius, sight lines, road surface.

 

[Old Can Ride]

What ever happened to the old break tap to set the suspension? Ole well, the times are changing.

 

[Deleted member 5383]

when it feels right and ready. on blind curves that may possibly be decreasing radius or give signs of contour changes for the worse that's a little more conservative than for ones that are pretty obvious. i'm a bit less aggressive on downhills, especially when they're wet. and as always, i ride how i'm feeling.

 

[DC-Honda]

Stop riding when your mind starts to wander.

 

[Old Can Ride]

Stop riding when your mind starts to wander.

Then, I would never ever get to leave the house.

 

[drstimpy]

At what point do you begin to accelerate? Not a direct question, but kind of a general question for the group to see what folks think.

I often get on the gas early to settle the chassis in a turn...the moment I'm off brakes. Not crack it mind you. Just neutral throttle to get the bike off its nose and take up the drivetrain slack.
All turns are different and you can always do a little better, smoother, faster in retrospect.


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[drdubb]

To qualify my statements....i don't ride hard. I usually drag a little rear brake and then ease on the throttle.

 

[DCTFAN]

I'm no expert, but if you have the guts to overlap the trail breaking with getting on the gas, you are past "as good as it gets" and closer to "riding like the devil"!

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[Neostorm]

On a manual bike I have found for the smoothest shifting I need to release the clutch quickly to the point of first friction and slowly release from there. (If anyone knows a better way please let us know. )

 

[DCTFAN]

We prayed for rain so the trail would be less dusty and we're getting our prayers answered.
As always 'He' just has to show off- raining all day long (amen).
Now there'll be too much mud.

Hey, DCTFAN, looks like you're getting rain today also. Stuck inside too, eh?

The technique is independent of speed; slow or fast, it is the same. As speed increases, however, you will have to get it turned in that much quicker or you will run wide.
As you lean the bike over, the radius of the tire decreases to the edge; you will actually slow; add throttle to maintain speed. Otherwise, the suspension does compress as you noted earlier and ground clearance decreases along with. You want to keep the suspension up in mid-stroke if possible in the turns. Only one control on the bike does that - throttle.
Trail braking, no. That is a track thing; avoid on the street; don't trade off spare cornering traction for braking if not absolutely necessary.
Brake, turn, maintenance throttle, accelerating throttle out. Smooooth.

 

[dduelin]

I disagree with the comment that trail braking is only for the track. By trail braking I mean braking past the turn in point then trailing off the brakes after entering the turn. As lean angle begins to increase braking force must be eased off, that is "trailed" off or else the amount of traction points used for lean and braking can exceed 100 points and the rider can lose the front or rear tire but until that point there are points available for braking. If 80 points are being used for lean then 20 points are available for braking. The ability to brake smoothly and gently beyond the turn in point allows much finer adjustment of speed all the way to and even beyond the apex and this adds safety for the mid-corner surprises that do require riders to sometimes brake after turning in. It adds a margin of safety to street riding.

Never trail braking means the rider must decide very early what speed to set for the corner and if there is a mid corner surprise or the rider badly misjudged the corner and is way to hot into the corner, either thus requiring braking the only that that can be done is to stand the bike up and brake then rapidly lean back in to avoid running off the road. Trail braking is an advanced skill and is in the tool box of smooth, fast, but not reckless riders. The key is smooth, smooth, smoothly easing off brake as lean angle increases. If the brakes are abruptly released, the forks extend abruptly, the front end pops up, steering geometry abruptly changes making the bike harder to steer and it becomes unsettled in the corner. Schools teaching advanced street riding skills teach it and books on the same usually have a sidebar on trail braking in the chapter on braking.

 

[Old Can Ride]

We prayed for rain so the trail would be less dusty and we're getting our prayers answered.
As always 'He' just has to show off- raining all day long (amen).
Now there'll be too much mud.

Here is a interesting AT accident. No one hurt, but.................

[video=youtube_share;Kwq7m-9gHD4]https://youtu.be/Kwq7m-9gHD4[/video]

 

[Grey1one]

Ridin' on the wrong side of the road.

 

[DCTFAN]

Stop riding when your mind starts to wander.

Nein!
Just wanted to add that the mind "wanders" in mysterious ways. I think everyone knows what DC-Honda meant,
but I just cannot start any sentence with "Stop riding..." in any circumstance.
There is a stretch of twisty paved roads in the north GA mountains that I enjoy riding.
Some days though, even with familiarity on the upcoming curves, my turns are horrible and
for a long time I could not put a finger on it.
Last time I rode, I came to a revelation of sorts.

Turns out, the times I felt my turns were out of whack, were times I tensed up on the grips.
As I forced myself to relax my grip and arms and let the front wheel turn the handlebars,
(my only input was to countersteer for the lean and then let the bike do its thing).
Got my mojo back.
Tip here is to relax your shoulders and everything attached to it.
Trust your bike and let it do its thing.

 

[dduelin]

The response was to the notion that trail braking was occurring in the first place. You are correct, sir, it is not a "never" thing. But it remains a track technique. As you said, it is your margin. Should you practice this, yes. Should you strive to become proficient at it, yes. Should you routinely use trail braking as your normal approach to turns, NO.

Chapter 6 of Mr. Ienatsch's book; yes I am familiar with it. Never give up on the brakes in an emergency situation; wholeheartedly agree. But as noted on page 60 insert, trail braking is for fine adjustments, which means you've set your entry speed prior; consistent with Keith Code's training - finish braking at or ahead of the flick, taking advantage of the compressed fork geometry as you transition.

Perform anticipated braking ahead of the turn-in point; good advice for the street. Mr. Code notes in his Twist II book that more bikes are lost attempting to late brake than are lost due to loss of traction off the brakes (trail braking and late braking are the same to me). I will take his word for this.

I re-affirm my advice and practice to the less experienced, of which I am one: save the trail braking for the track, and only on the street if absolutely necessary (i.e. emergency).

Ride safe folks

I think you incorrectly confuse braking late or going onto the brakes after tipping into the turn with trail braking. Code's books are geared to road racing and continually reference lowering lap times and increasing average track speeds. He almost stands alone in not endorsing or teaching trail braking and the reference you used is almost certainly couched in carrying too much speed into a turn and then braking too hard, or too late, or braking hard after the bike is turning. This is not what trail braking is. He actually does mention the concept of trail braking in a positive light on the top of page 103 (TOTW II)only he does not elaborate.

You did mention Nick Ienatsch's book Sport Riding Techniques and I urge you to reread what is between the two references you used. He talks about it for 3 pages and you only used the first sentence and practically the last sentence of that section. It's what's in the middle of those two that adds confidence and increased margins of safety to street riders that master it.

Sure, I agree with you that one's confidence and skill level should factor into practicing it. It's an advanced skill to learn only after mastering the basic Skills, Knowledge, and Strategies for Riding Right. (that taken right off the cover of my 2nd edition of the bible on rider training in the USA, Motorcycle Safety Foundation's Guide to Motorcycling Excellence) The MSF curriculum teaches to perform braking while the motorcycle is vertical and be off the brakes before turning into the corner. I agree as this book is aimed at developing basic skills and strategies for street survival for those with a newer motorcycle endorsement on their license. Interestingly though, page 158 of the text, right after chapter 14 Safe Cornering Techniques, is an essay devoted to the skill of trail braking. I won't copy and paste the entire page but the first three sentences sum it up: "Trail braking - nearly everyone has heard the term, yet few of us, if pressed, could accurately define it. This is unfortunate; even though it's generally considered an advanced skill, a basic understanding of trail braking is a valuable addition to any rider's skill set. However, novices should not try this technique until they have perfected their basic riding and braking skills over many miles in a wide variety of traffic conditions." The text goes on to explain the definition, the basic technique, and the benefits to the rider who learns it. The fact that it's given prominence in an otherwise very conservative text underscores it's importance to riding safety as skills and riding speed increase beyond the novice stages.

 

[netizen]

Then, I would never ever get to leave the house.

ROFL!!! SO TRUE OCR SOOO TRUE!!! Hope your still recovering well... Did you have your second surgery yet?

 

[netizen]

Poor Man's Spot AKA Google Maps

Google has just made it easy to share your location in real time in the google maps app. Just look in the menu that you open on the upper left side of the screen by tapping on the 3 Vertical lines, then tap on "Share location".
You will have the option of setting an expiration time or just leaving it on.
Of course you need to be in range of cell or wifi in order for it to track you and relay that information.

There are Apps that also do this. One of the most refined is an app called Glympse. I don't think it has an option to keep it on all the time though...