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New tires mounted, plus Ride-on report.

Over the years I purchased a lot of camera equipment in Japan. What upsets me about all the camera equipment I have bought in Japan sense the 1960's is that the Iphone with the right programs does such a good job. The new S-4 Samsung does an even better job. You do have a very good album.1.jpg

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The rear Metzeler on my bike has been behaving a bit squirrely in turns the last five weeks or so. Tire pressure has been within the range of correct, give or take a couple of pounds. Today, I took the usual twisty back roads into Martinsburg to get an inspection sticker and noticed the condition has worsened considerably. I'm well familiar with the roads I ride around home as I'm on them frequently, so I can't blame the roads. And although my riding skill's aren't track day worthy, I've ridden the roads around here long enough to know how to handle them. The tech at Martinsburg Motorsports told me the rear tire was about eight pounds low and brought it up to 42 psi. When I got home I removed the panniers and took it for a mountain run. The same condition persisted. So although the tread looks good, I have to question the compound, as nothing else has changed. Long story short, I too ordered the Michelin PR 3's and paid $311.00 for both with free shipping from Motorcycle Superstore as the dealer wanted close to $400.00 for the same tires. Also, just finished reading a comparative review from a biker who's worn out different tires on his Triumph Speed Triple and chose the PR3's as the best all around tire. If anyone has a few minutes, I think this well written review is worth a read. Confessions of an Ageing Motorcyclist: Michelin Pilot Road 3 - end of life review
 
I don't know if you went to the tire changing class at Horizons Unlimited, but they had one of the best presentations I have ever seen on tires, changing tires, and tire pressure. The tire pressure stamped on the tire, is the pressure to never exceed either cold or hot. The pressure listed in the owners manual is the cold pressure. They stated that the manufacture engineers put a lot of time in on every bike figuring out the correct tire pressure for each motorcycle. They suggested that the owners manual cold pressure is the pressure to be run in any bike. They showed testing on all the various types of tire pressure gauges, and guess what they all work just about the same. The cheap old type gauge works just as good a the high dollar electric gauges.

Like you said, you can just fell it when there is something not right with your tires. No one knows your bike better than you, so trust your senses not what anyone else tells you, even if that someone else is your dealer! It's your bike and only you can say when it is right!2.jpg

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It was great presentation. Best learning for me was determining correct pressure. First check pressure cold. Take a long ride to heat up tire. Get off and immediately check again with SAME GAUGE. It should be 5% to 10% higher. If cold pressure is 40 psi then hot pressure should be between 42 to 44 psi. If more, then cold pressure too low. If less, then cold pressure too high. Accuracy of gauge not important as long as same gauge used for both measurements. Correct pressure changes with loading on bike.
 
I just put a set of Pilot Road 3's on the NC, so we'll see how they go. I have been using Pilot Road 2's on my R1150 for quite a while and I like them quite a lot. They are my usual tire for the bike unless I am going on an expedition type ride. In that case I run B rated Metzeler Marathons for mileage and a tough carcass. I have an extra set of wheels for the R so that I can change between tire types. Since the rear Marathon is taller, I also change the torque rod to lower the rear suspension back to standard. Between the two Michelins though, the PR2's are definitely quieter. I can't compare handling because it is two different bikes, but the PR2 seems to track better to me. The best way to describe it is to imagine that you were trying to ride on an imaginary 6 inch wide rail in the street at speed and see how hard or easy it is. I think with cars they call this an "on center" feeling. First impressions of the PR3 on the NC is that I lost some of the "on center" feeling and have to provide more conscious steering inputs to maintain a line. Not enough to be a bother, but noticeable. We'll see how the vaulted rain performance is, as that and wear will determine whether a I try another set.

Regarding hot and cold pressure... I believe that 10% rise is a good track figure but too high for good tire wear on the street. I think the 5% figure is better, but I simply use a hot to cold difference of 2 psi and have found that it works well. Fuzzy mentioned that correct pressure varies with load, and it does. It also varies with average speed. If you plan to blast up the interstate all day on a trip, your cold pressure should be a bit higher than if you plan to run 50 mph back roads or stop-n-go traffic. If you can ever find a set of tires that you plan to repeat buy, then you can work out a pressure chart and you don't have to test any more. Better, though, is to set your cold pressure before you leave and check tire pressure at occasional gas stops along the way. In addition to being able to adjust where necessary, you may notice the onset of a slow leak before it affects handling and in a place where you can more easily deal with it.

With my R1150, I finally simplified my pressure chart to where if I was planning a high speed day, I added +2psi cold and if I was loaded heavy, I added +2 psi. If I planned to go fast and heavy, I added +4psi. My base pressure was 34/38. Some people drop pressure for unpaved roads, and I have tried that, but now I just return to base pressure. The reason being that the low pressure strategy for unpaved roads was developed by people who generally use spoke wheels with tubes. I accept a bit less surety in handling (with a commensurate rise in caution level) in order to assure I don't deflate or bend a wheel using cast wheels and tubeless tires.

ETA: I retract the comment about the tracking issue. With more miles, this tendency has gone away. I don't know if it was just new tire "greasy kid stuff" or the tires have settled in, but I no longer notice the tracking sensitivity that I noticed when the tires were freshly installed. I'll also add that I used Ride-on as well, but I still balanced them before the Ride-on installation. My logic, if there is any, is that with the tires balanced, the Ride-on will distribute more evenly than if it were lumped up to mitigate a balance issue. This may improve it's flat fighting ability or contribute to a finer state of balance. I don't know, it just made sense.
 
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So, if I get some tire changing tools and use ride on, I can do the tires myself and skip the expense of the change place?
 
dramd said:
So, if I get some tire changing tools and use ride on, I can do the tires myself and skip the expense of the change place?
Click to expand...

If you can change tubeless tires on the ground by yourself with "some tire changing tools" then you are a giant among men. If you can do it without cussing, then you are a saint.

At least something to hold the wheel in a solid fixed position is needed to preserve sanity and prevent damage to nearby objects from thrown hammers. Granted if you are on the side of the road between BFE and the Middle of Nowhere, then you do what you have to do, but to change them at home this way - other than to confirm that you will be able to do it on the road - is self abuse. Before I had proper equipment I used a car wheel with a slit rubber hose as a rim protector. The wheel was bolted to a concrete anchor in the floor and the wheel was clamped to it by an all-thread rod through the axle hole. If it had a single disc, I put it on the inside of the wheel dish to protect it from all the prying action. Horsing around with it on the ground is a great way to damage a brake disc if you are not sure what you are doing. There are lots of decent tire mount and demount tools to choose from.
 
Yes, the two sets of tire irons I see used the most are:

The irons that I use:

BikeMasterTools.jpg

I like the 1/2 round ends to grab the tire.

I have sold a lot of the Motion Pro Tire Irons shown here:

MotionProIrons.jpg

But, last month at Horizons Unlimited I saw for the first time these irons, and they are the best I have ever seen, but also the most expensive of the group.

MotionProBead.jpg

Even the folks at Horizons Unlimited used a third tire iron with these, so have to purchase 1 more tire iron.

I highly recommend always using three tire irons.6.jpg

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dramd said:
So, if I get some tire changing tools and use ride on, I can do the tires myself and skip the expense of the change place?
Click to expand...

Yes, you can. I did. I watched a few YouTube videos first. Then gave it a shot. It's not super easy and you need some strong hands to manipulate the tire, but it can be done.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 4
 
I watched a couple of videos on youtube, bought 2 packs of motion pro 11" tire irons (so I had 3 irons to use), and 2 packs of motion pro rim protectors (so I didn't have to move them), and a couple of 2x4s to sit it on so the hub and rotor wouldn't be on the ground. Back tire went off and on fairly easy. Front was harder, shorter sidewalls, but doable. I used a flat blade shovel to break the bead. Saw that on a video.
 
dramd said:
So, if I get some tire changing tools and use ride on, I can do the tires myself and skip the expense of the change place?
Click to expand...

JDE said:
Yes, you can. I did. I watched a few YouTube videos first. Then gave it a shot. It's not super easy and you need some strong hands to manipulate the tire, but it can be done.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...

I changed mine also. Breaking the bead can be a PITA though. This and a cheater bar made my job alot easier. Motorcycle Bead Breaker

I also have an assortment of tire spoons.
 
I have used Ride-On In all my Bike tires. Last year before I was going on a long trip on my Silver Wing scooter, I changed the tires. The back tire had 12,000 miles on it and still had tread on it, But I was going to go around 4,000 miles and wanted new tires. When I got the rear tire off the rim, there was a big nail sticking in the tire. I check the tires on my bikes the next day after a ride, look at the tread for damage and checking the air.I never saw the nail and have no idea how long the nail was in the tire, but it never lost more air than normal. I change all my tires myself with tire irons. I had made a tire balancer and used stick on weights. But since I have been using Ride-On, I gave the tire balancer away. I ride year round and have never felt any vibration with it in the tires.
 
Just put a new Metzler on the rear of the NC. The old one had 8,500 miles on it & was not quite down to the wear mark. I am getting ready for a 4,000 mile trip & knew the tire would not make it & do not want to take the Wing. When I removed it from the rim, there was a small nail inside. The ride-on fixed the hole. If It was not for the trip, I think I could of gotten close to 10,000 on the tire. The Ride-on makes the tires last longer. The tires on my Silver Wing have 8,000 miles on them now, & still look new.
 
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