NC700X Hard to Start Intermittently

[Deanos]

Hi everybody,
Just wanted to know if anybody had any further suggestions and/or possible solutions to this issue.

It's been happening to me for about 3 months now, but it is so unpredictable.
Firstly I thought it was from the cold in the mornings, but then the next cold morning, the bike starts up fine.

But it is really starting to bother me.
I checked valve clearances 2 weeks back and reset them to spec, some were slightly out.
The bike has 15700kms on it.

I ran fuel cleaner through it but it hasn't done a thing except change the smell!

I use a GoPro daily and can upload many vids of it starting and not starting, but it is almost the same as the first one.

The battery is only 9 or so months old, but I doubt it is that because when the bike doesn't start the starter can run full speed for at least 10 - 20 seconds before it eventually starts. No sign of any weak turning at all.

I also thought it was the Honda HISS system, turn on the key, then it takes a few seconds before the HISS light goes out.
I was turning on the key and starting immediately after the fuel pump stopped.

So I tried waiting 5 or so seconds then starting and this worked fine for a while, but it is doing it's thing again!!!!!!!!!

My local Honda dealer wants to charge me a ridiculous fee to diagnose this, and because it is intermittent, they want the bike for a week!
Not going to happen because this is my main transport.


So has anybody managed to find a solution to this yet?

 

[Old Can Ride]

Have you tried putting dielectric grease on all the aluminum electric connections. Lots of aluminum connectors all over any motorcycle, and they all corrode. Takes forever to disconnect, grease, and reconnect all the aluminum connectors on a motorcycle, but this solves so many motorcycle problems. The dealer will charge the labor for the tech that does this and it is a real expensive time consuming simple item you can do yourself.

 

[Deanos]

Thanks for the quick reply.

I haven't done that, and personally would not know where to even start with that.
Sounds like an involved project with stripping down half the bike.

I was just asking here because there seamed to be many others with the same issue, yet nobody has given any solutions.

 

[MZ5]

MZ5 -- did you ever find anything out since yours was doing it too?

trey

Oh, shoot. I never saw this follow-up. Sorry, trey.
In my case, the battery quit me shortly after this all came up, if I'm recalling my sequence correctly. Fast-forward from a year ago to this past weekend, and the bike took an extra crank or two to start after a fuel stop on a looong ride ride Saturday. I'll be _ticked_ if it eats another battery. Almost enough to buy a pretty, new Tiger 800 at the local Triumph dealer...

 

[Deanos]

LOL!

You can't do that!
Rather get a new VRF1200X...

Anyways, so you said it was the battery then...

They are just so expensive those batteries! Almost as much as a car battery.

Perhaps I should take the battery in and have it tested then.
Just weird that it will crank the motor for ages and not even need a breath.

 

[johnakay]

you may have a duff spark plug.
take one out and see if you have a good spark as you turn the engine over.
I've had new spark plugs only lasting a couple hundreds miles then they don't work...

 

[Deanos]

If that was the case, surely I would feel it in the performance...?

The bike the runs like a dream!

It's just getting her to run sometimes.

I'll check the plugs the coming weekend, but I doubt it's that.

 

[treybrad]

Only very rarely does mine do it now, and only for an extra revolution or two, not as bad as the video I posted. Never figured anything out, just seemed to stop doing it. I'm on the original battery, coming up on 3 years and 45,000+ miles old, still cranks away as good as new to my ears. Never had a valve actually be out of spec any of the times I've checked them, but always center them while I'm in there.

I will say, as silly as it sounds, kungfoo222's suggestion in post # 35 does seem to hold some merit. Seems that more often than not when it does act up, I don't have the clutch pulled in. So, something to do with that, or total coincidence, I'm not sure

If you have any luck with a concrete solution let us know!

trey

 

[Deanos]

Thanks Trey...

I'm now pushing more towards either the HISS or a fuel primer problem.

So far, no problems, but I now turn on the key, put on my gloves, then start...
Seams to work alright after the extra few seconds.

Will keep trying though.

Going to try cut some parts out of my vids to show you how bad mine is though...

 

[Deanos]

Here are some of the most annoying starts I had, and a good one!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4FleMogjV0&

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al-g3zGRTBk&

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFuNCgyLkUQ&

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JiAjYloU_w&

 

[QuaXum]

I too have the same issue on my 13 nc 7x. U might want to try clutching in for a easier start. Idk why it works, but it works!

 

[Deanos]

I can't see how the clutch is connect in anyway as I have never had to pull the clutch at all.
If my method below fails before the weekend, then I'll try that.

What I have been doing lately is turning the key on, then putting my gloves on (5-10 seconds) then starting the bike.

That has been trouble free for about 3 or 4 days now.

So I'm wondering now if the HISS isn't being delayed for a bit or something?

Could also be the fuel pump maybe?

Anybody got any experience with that?
But I'm sure if it was the pump, then I would have other fuel issue while riding?

This is soooooooooooo frustrating!

 

[treybrad]

I can't see how the clutch is connect in anyway as I have never had to pull the clutch at all.
If my method below fails before the weekend, then I'll try that.

What I have been doing lately is turning the key on, then putting my gloves on (5-10 seconds) then starting the bike.

That has been trouble free for about 3 or 4 days now.

So I'm wondering now if the HISS isn't being delayed for a bit or something?

Could also be the fuel pump maybe?

Anybody got any experience with that?
But I'm sure if it was the pump, then I would have other fuel issue while riding?

This is soooooooooooo frustrating!

I don't think it's HISS, because we don't have that here in the states and a few have had the problem. Agreed the clutch seems unnecessary, but it does seem to help.

trey

 

[Deanos]

I'm sure you have the HISS system...
I though it was a standard fitment on all NC's???

Honda Ignition Security System

That is weird...

Anyways, my theory of turning on the key and waiting 5-10 seconds seams to be working fine for now...

Will keep testing and give feedback.

Another question, anybody done a clutch on their NC?
Any idea how many KMs or Miles a clutch should last?
My bike is in daily use and I lane split almost the whole 12kms into work.
Heavy work on the clutch...

 

[MZ5]

No HISS for the American market. Maybe the whole North American market? Griff's experience sounds similar to yours, in that a leaky (for example) injector would need the fuel pump to be certain to completely fill and pressurize the system or it'll have trouble starting.

 

[Deanos]

Thanks MZ5.

Sounds plausible...

Been running find the way I'm doing it now, but this takes ages to solve, and the injectors will also go on the list to check.

 

[Saturday Morning]

I found this thread searching for 'Rough Idle' as just lately the NC developed a rough idle at cold startup and will stall easily before it warms up. (Some of the symptoms are shared) There are lots of good ideas here but there is a big one that was never mentioned - Bad Gas! We had a rash of "splash blend ethanol" problems in our area that caused hard starting problems. Back to the issue at hand, the battery and electrical connections have been discussed in depth already - so here is my short list of checks to make:

1. Faulty coolant temperature sensor (creating a lean condition)
2. Faulty Idle air control valve (insufficient air flow)
3. Leaky fuel injector (flooded cylinder condition)
4. partially plugged fuel injector (lean condition)

-Saturday

 

[Deanos]

WOW, almost forgot about this one.

My bike has been starting perfect for the past month and a bit.
Starts on the first spin every time, weather I leave the ignition on a few seconds or not.

We had a good chat today about it and a mate suggested something else I never even considered.
I had done an oil change not long before all the problems began and the oils was purchased direct from my local Honda dealership.

It was suggested that because it was a cold winter, perhaps the newer oil became thick and caused the issues????
Temps have now warmed up a lot here the past month!

It wasn't the battery, no starter or wiring issues and no fuel issues cause I use the same fuel in my car from the same pump at the same station.

So what do you guys think? Possible?
Cannot remember exactly what the oil was, but it was the stock Honda Castrol oil (20W15 maybe?)

 

[670cc]

Cannot remember exactly what the oil was, but it was the stock Honda Castrol oil (20W15 maybe?)

If you mean it was Castrol 20W-50, that weight is not recommended in the Honda manual and it's probably too thick for winter use.

 

[Deanos]

That could be it, but it was branded as a Honda product....

Perhaps the oil was too thick and the motor struggled to turn...????

Possible?