LED: things I learned today

[StratTuner]

Today, I bought these to replace the incandescent bulbs in my turn signals

.

They have one (positive) contact on the bottom and two metal stubs on the sides evenly spaced.
In the rear fixtures, they work great!

Now, the front signals are more difficult because they have flashing light and running light. They have to have two circuits: DIM and BRIGHT.

The 1157 edition of the same Pilot LED has two (positive) contacts on the bottom and two metal stubs that are staggered so that the bulb will go in ONLY ONE WAY.

That ensures that the two bottom contacts line up... one for DIM and one for BRIGHT circuits.

Turn on the power and HALF the LEDs on each LED fixture go on (DIM circuit). I guessed that they would ALL go on for the BRIGHT circuit and flash. Great...this was going to work!

Selecting a right or left turns causes the LED to go completely dark.

Oddly, selecting EMERGENCY turns ALL the LEDs to go on and flash.

Anyone know why this doesn't work? or, better yet, how to fix it?

Putting the original incandescents back in made everything work correctly.
It seems unlikely that the LED bulbs could both be damaged and in exactly the same way.

 

[Beemerphile]

You might need either an LED rated flasher or a six ohm 25 to 50 watt resistor across each bulb on each side. I used resistors on mine when I switched the rear to LED. The stock flasher has a thermal switch on it that is tuned to the amp draw of the incandescent bulbs. The LED's draw only about 10% of the current of the incandescents. The bulb says it is suitable for CANBUS without giving a bulb-out warning, but maybe most CANBUS systems are sophisticated enough to employ digital timers instead of thermal.

4motorcycleracing Honda LED Flasher Relay | eBay

2 Pcs 50W 6ohm Load Resistors for Hyper Flash Turn Signal Blink Blinker LED Bulb | eBay

 

[StratTuner]

Thank you BP. I was guessing that it had something to do with the resistors. The turn signals flash FASTER now than they did... can't explain that, but I don't care.

The ebay resistor things seem like a good idea.... but I didn't learn where those go today. (smile)

I'm looking forward to the day when you can just drop an LED in where the incandescent went and have it work.
Looks like we're about half way to that point.

The resistors look like this on ebay:


How many of these little gold bars do I need? 2? 4?
and the obvious next question.... where do they go? Those won't fit inside the space the bulb uses!

 

[Beemerphile]

Thank you BP. I was guessing that it had something to do with the resistors. The turn signals flash FASTER now than they did... can't explain that, but I don't care.

It is done on purpose as a bulb-out indicator so that you will know that one of them is blown. When you went from a 21 watt incandescent to a 2-3 watt LED, it reacted as if the bulb was blown.

The ebay resistor things seem like a good idea.... but I didn't learn where those go today. (smile)

Each resistor has two leads that are interchangeable (you can't wire it up backwards as you can a diode). One lead goes to the hot wire on the bulb that you are replacing with an LED. The other lead is grounded.

I'm looking forward to the day when you can just drop an LED in where the incandescent went and have it work.
Looks like we're about half way to that point.

You can already do that on vehicles that have a solid state flasher. In fact, you are starting to see bikes and cars come from the factory with LED's so the retrofit thing will go away. BTW, I think you would find it significantly easier to trade out the flasher relay. It is plug and play with no wiring mods. The resistors can be difficult to splice in, locate, keep from shorting, etc. and you need one for each LED bulb. If you change the flasher you can run any mix of LED and incandescent with no more changes.

 

[StratTuner]

OK... great... I'll change the Honda LED Flasher.... I need two of them?

Now, don't laugh or get mad. What does one do with them?
I presume I will unplug the existing one and plug in the new (a much more elegant solution than adding inline resistors).
Where does that happen?

To paraphrase the Joker of Batman fame: "Do I look like a GUY with a plan? I just ... DO things."

 

[Beemerphile]

OK... great... I'll change the Honda LED Flasher.... I need two of them?

Now, don't laugh or get mad. What does one do with them?
I presume I will unplug the existing one and plug in the new (a much more elegant solution than adding inline resistors).
Where does that happen?

To quote the Joker of Batman fame: "Do I look like I have a plan? I just ... DO things."

One flasher. Unplug and replace. Unless I mis-remember, it is attached to the outside of the frunk wall at the front left side.

 

[StratTuner]

I think I can see it when I look down from that top opening.... after taking off one plastic panel.
I've never taken off the side panels....I wonder how folks work on that. I bet you have to take off most of the side plastic.

(OK...now you can get a little annoyed...)

I have reached the point where it's so difficult it's not worth doing.

Time to go back to the incandescents. They work just fine.

 

[itlives]

Hey Don, do you have a shop manual? A manual and a little time will get the job done.
The only reason I can see to change to leds would be to free up some alternator output for something else.
I take that back, you probably wouldn't have to worry about them going out on you, either.

 

[StratTuner]

looking on the bright side...at least now I have a full set of replacement (incandescent) bulbs stored on the motorcyle for long road trips.
One headlight bulb, two front , two rear, signal bulbs.

That's the good thing here!

 

[Thangmorian]

You might need either an LED rated flasher or a six ohm 25 to 50 watt resistor across each bulb on each side. I used resistors on mine when I switched the rear to LED. The stock flasher has a thermal switch on it that is tuned to the amp draw of the incandescent bulbs. The LED's draw only about 10% of the current of the incandescents. The bulb says it is suitable for CANBUS without giving a bulb-out warning, but maybe most CANBUS systems are sophisticated enough to employ digital timers instead of thermal.

4motorcycleracing Honda LED Flasher Relay | eBay

2 Pcs 50W 6ohm Load Resistors for Hyper Flash Turn Signal Blink Blinker LED Bulb | eBay

I bought that flasher relay, at least i think i did as that auction didnt list a manufacturer's part number. Mine looks identical. Theres another thread with another link that lists a part numer. 40-301. Thats what i got. Thats what the box was labeled. It doesn't work. I still flash at ~60 flashes/min. Does anyone have a non ebay source.

 

[StratTuner]

Hey Don, do you have a shop manual? A manual and a little time will get the job done.
The only reason I can see to change to leds would be to free up some alternator output for something else.
I take that back, you probably wouldn't have to worry about them going out on you, either.

I'm revisiting this now... as it's turning into one of those projects I know i can do... if I just try.
The turn signal relay is mounted on the outside of the frunk on the left side.
Great, but that is all covered with a lot of body plastic.

Searching the PDF of the service manual reveals.... nothing.... how does having a manual help with this?

If I can find this relay thing and replace it with... something BP mentioned.... I can just put in new bulbs without adding restors to each and every light?

still discouraged as i don't have a plan.... or a clue about good wiring.

 

[itlives]

I looked in my manual. It shows how to do it but I'll be darned if I can make heads or tails of it.
I took mine apart one time (got it back together, too).
You can break some tabs if you don't know which way to push/pull.
You really need a real shop manual and some time.

 

[Beemerphile]

After you have done it a few times you will locate some shortcuts. For one, it is not necessary to remove the rear cowl - you only need to remove the clips closest to the front. The side shrouds can then be carefully un-interlocked from the rear cowl once all of the bolts and clips on the side shrouds are removed. The fake air ducts are easy peasy. The only real pain is the removal and reinstallation of the two clips at the bottom of the pit under the fake air duct. Someone at Honda should receive lashes for that.

 

[L.B.S.]

Searching the PDF of the service manual reveals.... nothing.... how does having a manual help with this?

The Owner's Manual is not a Service or Shop Manual.

The Shop Manual goes into great detail about every part of the bike, and is a wonderful source of information on how to do everything, with nice pictures and drawings and sequential explanations.

 

[L.B.S.]

After you have done it a few times you will locate some shortcuts. For one, it is not necessary to remove the rear cowl - you only need to remove the clips closest to the front. The side shrouds can then be carefully un-interlocked from the rear cowl once all of the bolts and clips on the side shrouds are removed. The fake air ducts are easy peasy. The only real pain is the removal and reinstallation of the two clips at the bottom of the pit under the fake air duct. Someone at Honda should receive lashes for that.

My Achilles heel with the bodywork, are the tabs and notches surrounding the right and left side headlight/under dash panels. Auugh!

 

[spets]

Getting to the flasher is not that difficult.

Open the frunk. On the left side you'll see a phillips head screw supporting the upper left painted cover. take that screw out. Outside the frunk, on the front side of the cover (inside the opening where the handlebars/triple tree is), you'll see a push-pin clip. pop that clip out. Slide the painted cover back and up to remove it.

Reach in with your hand, and the flasher will be mounted to the frunk, at the very rear of the hole you just opened up. Its just held on with a rubber grommet on a clip. Get your fingers in there, pull up on the flasher unit, and it will come loose. Then you can unplug the connector.

Buy this flasher:

New 07 11 Honda CBR600RR CBR 600 RR LED Flasher Relay 4 Pin | eBay

and plug it into the bike harness. Done.

 

[L.B.S.]

You presume I have the owner's manual because I searched a pdf. Did I say owner's manual? I did not.
I said service manual. It's hundreds of pages. I guess that's what you'd call the shop manual. I have both as pdf... as well as a printed shop manual.
You're correct .
It's a useful source of information.
Your patronizing tone is painful and unwelcome.
I'm sorry I asked.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

! Patronizing tone?!

Holy cow Strat, if you took it as that, I am horribly sorry, there was totally no intent for such! What would cause such a vehement reaction?

 

[StratTuner]

Stupidity bad manners uncertainty....sigh.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[L.B.S.]

Stupidity bad manners uncertainty....sigh.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Dude, chill, lol

I am very sorry to have unknowingly ruffled your feathers That's the last thing I would want you to believe. I :heart: Strat

 

[Brillot2000]

I'm revisiting this now... as it's turning into one of those projects I know i can do... if I just try.
The turn signal relay is mounted on the outside of the frunk on the left side.
Great, but that is all covered with a lot of body plastic.

Searching the PDF of the service manual reveals.... nothing.... how does having a manual help with this?

If I can find this relay thing and replace it with... something BP mentioned.... I can just put in new bulbs without adding restors to each and every light?

still discouraged as i don't have a plan.... or a clue about good wiring.

If have any LED related questions, run them by me first. LEDs and their applications are my specialty. I can help you find the answer to your most common problems, misconceptions regarding LEDs and their application when it comes to motorcycles.

Here's a "Freebee", always use the color of the LED that matches the lens you want to use with it. Bonus - You can use any color LED with clear lens.