How the NC stacks up against the Africa twin.

[Deleted member 1183]

I have 2500kms on my AT now and so far the only weakness I can pinpoint is the rear shock. It is the total opposite of the shock on the NC in that it is very soft and plush. However when properly set up there is very little adjustment remaining on spring preload and rebound damping. I can live with it for the moment as my loading will be very light, but some folks who do carry heavy loads have already run into trouble and will probably replace the shock soon. With the usual amount of gear that I carry on my weekends away, my gross weight including luggage and gear would be about 90kg.

Otherwise all is well and there are no regrets for having purchased.

 

[happy]

To pickup a fully loaded adventure bike, one of these jewels is required!

[video=youtube;Tzecbg5-KEY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tzecbg5-KEY[/video]

I can have many reasons to "pick on" on this device but I won't.

Instead I will say the positives:
I think it is ingenious that new stuff is being invented and tried out like this.
Bravo.
Now where did the rider "hide" his bag when the bike fell on him?

 

[happy]

I have 2500kms on my AT now and so far the only weakness I can pinpoint is the rear shock. It is the total opposite of the shock on the NC in that it is very soft and plush. However when properly set up there is very little adjustment remaining on spring preload and rebound damping. I can live with it for the moment as my loading will be very light, but some folks who do carry heavy loads have already run into trouble and will probably replace the shock soon. With the usual amount of gear that I carry on my weekends away, my gross weight including luggage and gear would be about 90kg.

Otherwise all is well and there are no regrets for having purchased.

So are you saying the std rear shock is not good?
90kg seems to be a small weight to add to an Adventure Bike?

 

[Deleted member 1183]

So are you saying the std rear shock is not good?
90kg seems to be a small weight to add to an Adventure Bike?

There will always be a compromise when one puts dirt bike suspension on a heavy motorcycle. Many pure offroad motorcycles have plush suspension that soaks up all the bumps and give a smooth ride on very rough surfaces. They would not cope well with a lot of luggage added though. The AT has such suspension. It is streets better than the WP suspension that was on my 690KTM. What I am saying is that if one is going to load up the bike with heavy loads then the rear suspension will need attention. Not unheard of with big trail bikes.

No doubt some folks will get by, but if the full potential of the motorcycle is to be realised when carrying full loads the shock might need to be changed.

 

[happy]

No doubt some folks will get by, but if the full potential of the motorcycle is to be realised when carrying full loads the shock might need to be changed.

LOL, all "serious" travellers with serious bikes will swap out for Ohlins or similar.....I know.

Good luck!

 

[dduelin]

For me, I do what I can only describe as a "momentum bounce".

I always have my right foot on the peg anyway, so it's all about a firm planting of the left foot. I pull the front brake lever, and push forward/down to compress the forks. Just at the point of as much compression possible before rebounding back, I let go of the lever, and pull back on the bars, and push back with my left leg. The spring back of the rebounding forks helps add momentum.

This may sound more complicated and difficult than it really is, but you quickly get the knack of it with practice, and you can get several good bounce backs along with turning the handlebars incrementally as you do it, in the direction you want to be backing up.

Other than that, if it is too sketchy a surface, or there's an uphill slope that is simply impossible to overcome, then I bite the bullet and pop the sidestand down. Stand on the pegs, swing the right leg over, hop to the ground, and wrestle the bike backwards far enough as needed.

I haven't been able to flat foot a bike since I moved off a cruiser 10 years ago. I find flat footing highly overrated.

I do the fork bounce like L.B.S. and I also use mostly one leg to push backwards. I shift off to one side so that foot has good purchase on the ground and hop along with that leg. It's easy to me but I've got to do it all the time with a 29" inseam so I have lots of practice. The other thing is to not get into a nose-down parking situation to begin with and cast a critical eye at all parking situations to avoid them. If all else fails just get off of it and push the bike back as necessary.

 

[bamamate]

Even at my height I use LBS's bounce technique frequently especially when off-road.

 

[Deleted member 1183]

I also use the "LBS bounce" when needed.

On my KTM 690 (former) when using an Air Hawk I sometimes used to have to cruise around parking areas to find a kerb to get my foot down safely. Folks in petrol stations also used to give me a second look occasionally as I would ride in and then back out again until I could get a good position beside a pump to get my foot down comfortably. I was ok once the Airhawk was off.

I once knew a man who was so short that he always needed a kerb to park or otherwise he was in trouble. Occasionally when he got caught in heavy traffic he would put his arm out and lean up against a convenient car.

 

[DCTFAN]

I have 2500kms on my AT now and so far the only weakness I can pinpoint is the rear shock. It is the total opposite of the shock on the NC in that it is very soft and plush. However when properly set up there is very little adjustment remaining on spring preload and rebound damping. I can live with it for the moment as my loading will be very light, but some folks who do carry heavy loads have already run into trouble and will probably replace the shock soon. With the usual amount of gear that I carry on my weekends away, my gross weight including luggage and gear would be about 90kg.

Otherwise all is well and there are no regrets for having purchased.

AFAIK, the total wt. limit of the AT is 430 lbs(195kg)
Assuming avg. rider wt to be 180 lbs. that leaves 250 lbs left.

Are you saying that even before it comes close to its wt limit, the rear suspension is adjusted out?
I hope its not true, but then they do mention not to ride 2-up off-road. hmmm....

 

[Bandit]

The AT is more dirt than road jmho ,unlike the NCX is a road bike that in stock form can do some dirt roads. The big issue for me riding the NCX is my age ,just to darn painfull to ride much on trails. Now back in my Bultaco Puang day it was all about fast dirt bikes..?so long ago.
Bandit

 

[Deleted member 1183]

Are you saying that even before it comes close to its wt limit, the rear suspension is adjusted out?
I hope its not true, but then they do mention not to ride 2-up off-road. hmmm....

To function properly a shock absorber needs to be able to operate through much of its applicable stroke, especially on an offroad bike. With that in mind I have my spring preload set at 28 clicks out of a possible 36, riding solo with light loads. That allows the suspension to work at its optimum over the roughest roads. Even at that setting the rear can occasionally bottom out at speed on short deep dips. That is ok. I reckon when I head off in a couple of weeks on a long run with loaded tank bag and 22 liter panniers mostly filled, I will need to use a further 2 or 3 of the remaining 8 clicks of preload. If I were to load up with a pillion and larger heavier panniers and topbox, I have no doubt that the shock spring would not cope well.

Already some AT forum members are considering spring replacement on the OEM shock, and some have already changed the shock entirely, especially those going on expeditions fully laden. Right now with the weight I am carrying the oem shock is adequate. I don't carry a pillion on the AT but if I do make changes I will probably replace the entire shock as there is not sufficient rebound damping in the OEM item to control a stronger spring.

These are the facts as they apply to me.

 

[DCTFAN]

I suppose then, the comparison is not quite as silly as it looks on paper, and furthermore the AT is also currently somewhat low buck by comparison with some of the other big trail bikes on sale. How long that lasts remains to be seen.

As far as comparos go, I think many people are influenced by the outward appearances and less by the ride.
Yes, they are from different DNA, but the NC engineers had similar design goals; the main difference in the AT
development being the heritage and having to surpass it. IMO, again they did a superb execution of what an ideal
adventure bike should be. The AT is making a lot of people happy, especially(surprisingly) in the off road arena.

I only had the chance to demo the manual AT for about an hour around town with no off road but was able to
revv up the power to some challenging speeds on the straight interstates and already the differences became obvious.

Also, read thru all of the pages of the owner's manual and it was striking how many pages were identical to the NC OM.
Nearly all of the content about the DCT were identical verbatim. Except of course the additional S-modes but there was no
detailed explanation on those, as expected.

I feel this is a valid discussion and the comparisons are also relevant whether you own the AT or NC or any other bike.
...

 

[Hondafan]

Just a thought....a spring can bottom out if there is not enough compression damping slowing down wheel movement. You may find increasing compression damping will allow you to put less preload on the spring, getting a more controlled ride. You only mentioned spring preload and rebound damping in your post. I read up on that shock, and it is fully adjustable and has a remote reservoir. Sounds like a decent unit that should work just fine for a person your weight.

 

[Deleted member 1183]

Just a thought....a spring can bottom out if there is not enough compression damping slowing down wheel movement. You may find increasing compression damping will allow you to put less preload on the spring, getting a more controlled ride. You only mentioned spring preload and rebound damping in your post. I read up on that shock, and it is fully adjustable and has a remote reservoir. Sounds like a decent unit that should work just fine for a person your weight.

Yes, I am fully aware of the compression damping adjustment. I backed that off somewhat at first when the shock was new. Now with 3000kms on it I am gradually adding back some compression damping. I will level off with that as soon as the bumps start to hurt . Again, I am ok with the occasional bottom out which shows that the shock is using most of its stroke. The bottom outs have not been severe though.

 

[Hondafan]

Agree 100%.

 

[RBRHSV]

Two different bikes for two different purposes. I haven't had the chance to ride the AT, but I previously owned a Triumph Tiger 800XC which I rode for thousands of miles on the highway and off road (Utah Backcountry Discovery Route). The NC is a better road bike. The taller stance of the AT (and Tiger) make it less stable when confronting semis at 70 mph. The NC is also equal on dirt ROADS. I recently completed 1,000 miles on unpaved roads in Alaska after adding a set of knobby dual-sport tires to my NC700XD. I had no problem cruising at 40-50 mph on dirt roads and the 17-inch front wheel is not an issue. The wider, lower front tire may even be an advantage. If I was doing serious off road riding I would want a more aggressive dual-sport bike that had more suspension, skid plates, etc. But the NC is also more nimble due to its lighter weight. And you can't beat the fuel economy. If you are not riding technical rocky trails, the NC is great. (This defines 80% of "dual-sport" riders.) And you can buy THREE of them for the price of a BMW GS, and at least two for the price of an African Twin!

 

[Deleted member 1183]

Two different bikes for two different purposes.

I haven't had the chance to ride the AT, but I previously owned a Triumph Tiger 800XC which I rode for thousands of miles on the highway and off road.

The NC is a better road bike.

The taller stance of the AT (and Tiger) make it less stable when confronting semis at 70 mph.

The NC is also equal on dirt ROADS.

But the NC is also more nimble due to its lighter weight.

And you can't beat the fuel economy.

And you can buy THREE of them for the price of a BMW GS, and at least two for the price of an African Twin!

I have just read your post and I have no option but to respond.

I have separated some of your various points for clarity and will respond to each.

"Two different bikes for two different purposes" .............. Agreed

"I haven't had the chance to ride the AT, but I previously owned a Triumph Tiger 800XC which I rode for thousands of miles on the highway and off road." ................................
I own its bigger brother the 1200 Explorer. I tried the 800 but didn't like it. The bigger bike has more character , is much stronger, more planted on the road, not as good offroad (but there isn't much in it). Lastly, the 800 is not in the same league as the AT offroad.


" The NC is a better road bike. "................. I agree to a point with regard to the AT. The NC is quicker to steer, at least in the state of set up that I had mine in.


"The taller stance of the AT (and Tiger) make it less stable when confronting semis at 70 mph.".............. Not sure what you mean by that.


"The NC is also equal on dirt ROADS. " ..................... I note your emphasis on ROADS but I still have to totally disagree. On some of the rough backroads that I ride, I would either crash or be well out of the saddle on the NC if I were to ride it as quick as the AT is capable of. Those roads are not even offroad . The NC simply does not have the suspension and the 17 inch wheels are a liability offroad at speed. For comparison purposes I have ridden my former GL1800 on graded dirt roads as I have also with my NC. Bumps and hollows separate the two genres.


"But the NC is also more nimble due to its lighter weight." ..............Agree to a point. The NC is only 10kg lighter than the AT, but in switchbacks it is more nimble by virtue of its lower attitude and shorter travel suspension.

Lastly, you mention that you cant beat fuel economy, and the price of the AT and GS vis a vis the NC. Fuel economy on the AT can approach 60mpg imperial, not as good as the NC but not bad either. I am currently achieving 58. Yes the NC is a cheaper bike and good value at that. I would happily do a world tour on an NC but preferably on decent roads as my back is not good. I would also do a world tour on the AT but any old road would be ok.

 

[DCTFAN]

....
Fuel economy on the AT can approach 60mpg imperial, not as good as the NC but not bad either. I am currently achieving 58.

I concur. Might I add, if I rode the NC like I will ride the AT, the fuel consumption would be equal, no?
My 2015 (soon to be former) NC always showed avg fuel in the upper 50's in the twisties
unless I got on 'D' mode on long stretches of boring roads where it goes up in the 60's.

 

[dduelin]

I concur. Might I add, if I rode the NC like I will ride the AT, the fuel consumption would be equal, no?
My 2015 (soon to be former) NC always showed avg fuel in the upper 50's in the twisties
unless I got on 'D' mode on long stretches of boring roads where it goes up in the 60's.

From my experience there is no way to ride my NC and get equivalent fuel economy with a more powerful engine ridden in the same manner and speeds. The only time I see low 50s or less is doing speeds of 80-90 mph and the aero drag at that pace pulls down the mpg of the bigger engine. In the twisties it's usually high 60s low 70s because the aero drag from 25-55 mph speeds is so low. At the 700 gathering last month my mpg on the rides was 69 to 72 IIRC. 670cc was better than that. I don't know how to get 50s in the twisties. I've gotten over the AT for now. The NC on street wheels and rubber and upgraded suspension handles more to my liking and I can still do hard dirt and gravel roads. My days of real dirt riding are over and the off-road focus of the AT would be a negative for my style of riding. But those with one enjoy!

 

[DCTFAN]

Well good riddance, then. I had a fuel guzzler all these months. Kidding aside, I truly never paid much attention to mpg, was to busy enjoying the ride.

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