Need Help DCT malfunction; Stuck in gear and refusing to shift after 40 mins of riding [Resolved 4/26/21]

[DirtFlier]

I would suspect the battery's state of charge and not the engine oil. Last year, I switched to Shell Rotella 15W-40 from Honda GN-4 10W-30 and felt absolutely no difference in shifting performance.

 

[16DCT]

Got off the phone with the service dept. They're going to start on the bike today. I think today they're going to start off with the basics to make sure there's a solid baseline to work with. Proper battery charge, oil levels, fluid levels, chain and sprockets, etc (all of these are fine to my knowledge). They're also going to pull up any codes that were stored. Hopefully I didn't erase them when I did a DCT reset (does this delete codes?).

Then after that they're going to get into the more detailed aspects of the issue. I asked them to test the Shift Motor and to make sure that it runs properly in BOTH directions when 12v is applied.

 

[Doc True]

Got off the phone with the service dept. They're going to start on the bike today. I think today they're going to start off with the basics to make sure there's a solid baseline to work with. Proper battery charge, oil levels, fluid levels, chain and sprockets, etc (all of these are fine to my knowledge). They're also going to pull up any codes that were stored. Hopefully I didn't erase them when I did a DCT reset (does this delete codes?).

Then after that they're going to get into the more detailed aspects of the issue. I asked them to test the Shift Motor and to make sure that it runs properly in BOTH directions when 12v is applied.

I'm glad to see that they're working on it. I fear that they might test the shift motor it when it's cold. If the issue only occurs after it's overheated, they may determine it's functional when it's not

I wish you luck

 

[16DCT]

I made sure to specify with the service manager that the problem only seems to persist after riding about 40 minutes or so, or when the engine is warm. I asked for them to test the shift motor running in both directions as well, especially considering that my problem is mostly related to downshifting and not upshifting.

Thank you

 

[16DCT]

[Update]: They were able to pull up the stored fault codes. He said the that the fault codes were related to the ECU and don't seem to have much relevance to my problem. They have been trying to recreate the shifting issue but haven't been able to do so yet. The service manager and service tech working on my bike are off today so the guy on the phone told me they will call me tomorrow with more detailed info.

I believe this was the same issue in @telecam's case where the fault codes were pointing towards the ECU being the issue. In his case he went ahead and replaced it but it ended up not being the issue. I do not believe it's an issue in my case either, and neither does the service tech.

 

[16DCT]

I think I'm gonna pay a visit in person tomorrow and see what they've tested and tried so far. While I'm there I'm gonna ask them to open up a case with the Honda Support Tech Line.

 

[16DCT]

[Update 3]: I just came back from the dealership service. I was able to talk to both the service manager and service tech working on my bike. They told me the oil was a little bit low, but aside from that the basic stuff was fine. They tested the shift motor per the service manual and it ran perfectly fine in both directions at the appropriate voltages. They also let the bike idle for a long time to get it as hot as possible and then rode it around in various conditions for several minutes and were unable to replicate the issue. The stored DTC fault codes were related to the ECU PCM, and the next step (if going by the service manual) would be to replace that unit. The fault codes pointing to the ECU PCM is the exact same issue that @telecam had, and in his case he authorized the dealer to replace the unit but it did not fix the issue. I still believe I am dealing with a mechanical issue and not an electrical one, so I do not think I should replace that unit only for it to fail again. The service tech also didn't seem to think that my issue was related to the ECU/PCM.

We decided that the next best course of action is to check for the shifter pin in the Gearshift Drum Assembly that is known to come loose over time, or in some cases snap in half. At the same time I asked them to phone up Honda Tech Support or whatever it's called and see if the official Honda techs have any suggestions. My bike is not under warranty so I can't open a case with them but they will still call. They also told me that if I still believe it's the Shift Motor then I could place an order for one and they will install it for me.

So at this point I have no idea what I'm gonna do next if it's not the shift motor or shift pin. The labor costs are piling up and a fix has not been found, and the DTC codes are not really of any help...this is not good. I will phone up Honda Powersports tomorrow myself and see what my options are. I've lost all confidence in this bike and the DCT technology that I've grown to love over the past 3 months...

 

[ON TWO WHEELS]

There has been a recall for the X-ADV for a problem that looks like yours : LOOK HERE

 

[Griff]

There has been a recall for the X-ADV for a problem that looks like yours : LOOK HERE

I don't think that is the issue tbh. Part of the problem with the X-Adv was the all enclosing bodywork that allowed too much heat to build up around the ECU. The NC's don't have such enclosing bodywork by comparison.

 

[TacomaJD]

Interested to see what the problem ends up being, if they can figure it out, that is.

 

[16DCT]

[Update 4]: Got off the phone with service. They took apart the crankcase and checked everything related to the shift drum assembly and the dreaded "shift drum center bolt" aka the "shifter pin" that is known to come loose. Everything was perfectly fine and tightened. Everything looked clean and there was no damage. So that is ruled out. The DTC codes that were stored were 24-1 and 57-1. 24-1 is related to the shift control motor drive circuit and 57-1 is "gear shift mechanism malfunction", and/or TR sensor malfunction. At the time they tested the TR sensor so it wasn't that, and the shift motor tested fine as well but it wasn't tested under heavy load and high heat.

They also called Honda and Honda told them to check for that pin and also check the shift control motor, which they already did but they're going to do it again. The Honda support tech told the service tech that the slightly low oil could have been a factor as well, though I am skeptical. The next step in accordance to the service manual is to replace the ECU/PCM.

I already have an order for a replacement shift motor which I ordered from Partzilla with expedited shipping. So I'll be swapping that out first before I authorize them to replace the ECU.

 

[670cc]

Seems like someone always wants to play the oil card. Oil, schmoil. It either has oil in it or it doesn't. Move on.

If low oil was an issue, the sump would have had to be sucking air. And then the shifting would not be your only problem.

 

[lootzyan]

...We decided that the next best course of action is to check for the shifter pin in the Gearshift Drum Assembly that is known to come loose over time, or in some cases snap in half. At the same time I asked them to phone up Honda Tech Support or whatever it's called and see if the official Honda techs have any suggestions. My bike is not under warranty so I can't open a case with them but they will still call. They also told me that if I still believe it's the Shift Motor then I could place an order for one and they will install it for me.
... The labor costs are piling up and a fix has not been found...

Are you not afraid that the dealer may take advantage of your close involvement and your recommendation of what should be done next?
I think it would be better for you to say at the beginning that the DCT is broken and let them fix it. But now they can count any failed repairs in the cost and say they did it at your insistence.

 

[16DCT]

Are you not afraid that the dealer may take advantage of your close involvement and your recommendation of what should be done next?
I think it would be better for you to say at the beginning that the DCT is broken and let them fix it. But now they can count any failed repairs in the cost and say they did it at your insistence.

Even with my suggestions they still went through the proper steps with the stored DTC's in accordance to the service manual. Now we're at the point where it basically says to replace the entire ECU-PCM unit which is likely not even going to fix the issue. So at this point I have no real options other than to throw a new shift motor on it and see if that fixes the issue. I could deliberately try to get it to happen again and see if it throws out new DTC's to shift focus on. But yeah, they are putting a lot of time and energy on my bike so the labor costs are going to bite me in the ass for sure. I'm going to try and work with them on the price as much as I can considering I may (potentially) leave without a solution ever being found, and at the end of the day they just tested a bunch of stuff for me and changed the oil. The shift motor I can install myself because it's just 3 bolts, but the other stuff like examining the shift drum assembly was worth it because I didn't want to touch that stuff and not know how to put it back together.

Even if I hadn't suggested that the problem most likely lies within the shift motor or the shifter pin, it's one of the first things Honda Support told them to check so they would have done it anyway, just much later.

 

[16DCT]

[Update 5]: The mystery continues. They tested the shift motor again at 12v, 8v, and 6v per Honda Tech Support's request, and all tests passed. They warmed the bike up to 220 degrees F and rode it again and tried to get it to fail, but it did not. They told me I can come pick up the bike today since I don't want to replace the ECU-PCM. I deliberately took the streets home to try and get it to fail, but it did not. The ride was over an hour long, and covered about 25-30 miles, so in theory it should have failed on me. But if you go back and read post #13 I was able to ride for 1h40m and it didn't happen then either, but that was at night when it was much cooler (it failed again the next day). So basically I'll be swapping out the shift motor when it arrives and hope that my bike runs normally after that. Shift control motor (Part 31300-KVZ-631) are currently on backorder from Honda so it might be a while..

 

[wheel_of_steel]

Sounds like a very frustrating issue, I totally get how it can just kill the fun with a bike. I think the dealer missed an important step with their diagnosis by idling the bike instead of riding it. If 30 minutes of city riding isn't enough to generate an issue, idling the bike for a while won't cause an issue either.

• Idling the bike isn't doing any shifting, so there's no no friction, heat, or duty cycles on the shift motor
• Testing the shift motor on the bench is also not the same condition

I had similar diagnostic nightmares and oil red herrings with a clutch issue on my manual bike. The NC is a great bike but inner city riding will mean lots of systems (in my case clutch, cables, brakes, suspension, cooling) need an overhaul around the 30-50k mile mark.

 

[hulkss]

(Part 31300-KVZ-631) are currently on backorder from Honda so it might be a while..

ebay has it

 

[showkey]

ebay has it

Just a note.......ebay has a listing, it does not mean they have the part in stock ready to ship.

Most dealers no longer stock 1000’s of parts. They stock fast moving parts.
Many dealers have overs to sell using Ebay, Amazon or other selling platforms. They list 100’s of parts on thses platforms. They maybe ordering parts when an Ebay order is made. If thats the case they will be unable to fill the order if Honda has the part on BO.

 

[hulkss]

Just a note.......ebay has a listing, it does not mean they have the part in stock ready to ship.

Most dealers no longer stock 1000’s of parts. They stock fast moving parts.
Many dealers have overs to sell using Ebay, Amazon or other selling platforms. They list 100’s of parts on thses platforms. They maybe ordering parts when an Ebay order is made. If thats the case they will be unable to fill the order if Honda has the part on BO.

Just order from one of the listings that indicate in stock availability.

 

[bmega]

I just pulled mine apart after dealing with error 57 for a while now. It was the shifter pin. Completely snapped. But unless the tech actually removed everything, specifically the drum shifter guide plate/drum shifter assembly, he would assume the shifter pin was fine. It appears normal and snug just before this step. Only after that specific part is removed can you see the problem. Maybe they did remove it, even then, you have to know what you're looking for. Mine had such a clean snap that nothing looked out of place without looking carefully at the picture in the service manual and comparing it to the parts in your hand.