DCT Fault. Argh!

cattmando

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Dave, I put nearly 600,000 miles on 3 ST1100s with no clutch change. 30,000 miles isn't nearly enough

Perspective: Inside my right clutch cavity, there was no apparent wear or damage, just a loose bolt. This is either poor assembly or other failure on Honda's part. (no pun intended.)

As to part numbers, I'm only seeing one, 24315-HA0-000.

Changing subject a little: This bike is a Pain In The *** to work on. Tupperware is worse than the ST or VFR. The multiple sizes of fasteners is totally ridiculous. The little pieces of tubing with a sheet metal screw are beyond ridiculous, those screws are flat tires waiting to happen.
 
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cattmando

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670, I put nearly 600,000 miles on 3 ST1100s with not clutch change. 30,000 miles isn't nearly enough

Perspective: Inside my right clutch cavity, there was no apparent wear or damage, just a loose bolt. This is either poor assembly or other failure on Honda's part. (no pun intended.)

As to part numbers, I'm only seeing one, 24315-HA0-000.
 

b_rubenstein

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The multiple sizes of fasteners is totally ridiculous.

I discussed this issue of multiple, unique size/type fasteners with a guy I know. Most companies try to keep the number of unique parts to a minimum, because it simplifies ordering and inventory. One of the ways they do this is to have parts libraries that designers/engineers can use. If they want some part that isn't in the library, they have to make a request for a new part and explain the need. My guy told me Honda dosen't do that.
 

670cc

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670, I put nearly 600,000 miles on 3 ST1100s with not clutch change. 30,000 miles isn't nearly enough

Perspective: Inside my right clutch cavity, there was no apparent wear or damage, just a loose bolt. This is either poor assembly or other failure on Honda's part. (no pun intended.)

As to part numbers, I'm only seeing one, 24315-HA0-000.

I agree. Honda surely strives for zero defects of this type - parts coming loose inside the transmission. If this failure is just an inconvenience, then I’d expect they have or will quietly improve the product. If there is any argument that a failure of the transmission shift pin could cause loss of control of the machine, it should become a safety recall. I don’t know what the communication avenue might be, but it would be nice if Honda could know about your particular transmission defect.

If there is any concern over safety, there’s probably a way to report it to the NHTSA.
 
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dduelin

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On this pictorial you can see 3 different parts number without specifying which is the most recent.
I think that HL4-000 is the recent, because is used on 2018 models but one vendor has a note that MGS-D22 replaces HL4-000.
Total mess. That's why previously I suggested to you to contact Honda's technical support.

View attachment 36719
In Honda parts speak the pic shows that 24310-MGS-D22 supersedes the D20 part. If you unintentionally order D20 then Honda will supply the D22 part. Either part fits the same but after superseding to D22 Honda is no longer receiving new stock of D20 from vendors.

For the shifter pin all three part numbers are still stocked at least nominally and all three can be used interchangeably. This number duplication probably occured because the part is used in three separate Honda machine type - an ATV, a side by side utility vehicle, and the NC700 series of motorcycles.

Makes perfect sense :/
 
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dduelin

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24310-MGS-D22 is a number for Gearshift Drum Assembly, so why bring it here... Who ever replace it? Honda is so confident that nothing happen to it, that there is nothing in Service Manual about how to service it or get to it.

The picture above shows part list for 1 bike - 2015 CTX700ND, and 3 different part numbers means - be careful, something's wrong and do your homework. This vendor (and some others) didn't bother to update their list and you can buy any of these pins. But some did:

View attachment 36722

This is not about you or me. I doubt it would ever happen to me. Little bit late for that. Probably neither to you, right? Because if... you take it like a man, no complains, and Honda loves you for that.
But here we have a good example that cattmando could solve his problems in couple hours and save.
What else we can do in this awful weather, but try to help.
I brought up the Drum Assy 24310-MGS-D22 because it was an example of different part numbers listed and why that might be so as opposed to how there are also three different numbers for the Shifter Pin. Sorry for the confusion.
 

showkey

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Just remember these dealer parts sites ..........they are not HONDA’s site they may or may not be up to date. They do NOT reflect HONDA’s inventory or inventory control or Honda’s internal superseding.

If Honda’s supersedes a part for a problem of any kind the problem parts are scraped. The new part almost always has a new part number.
A new part number does NOT mean there is an issue with the part. It can mean it was developed for a different product and the three center digits are the product codes. It can also mean there are multiple vendors for the same part and they are tracked and inventoried as separate parts. In the case of the NC they are manufactured in multiple locations on the globe so parts and vendors can be different. In post #82 the product codes are all different meaning they maybe the same part developed and tracked by product. In Honda’s system they maybe 100% superceded but we can not tell that from the dealer screens.
 

showkey

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So with no symptoms..............who is going to be the first to pull the side cover to check their shift pin ????

Same guy that tore into the engine to check the cam chain tensioner ...........


Note:
If you have not noticed this thread is getting real close to the end of its life.
The bike is fixed........the true root cause is only speculation and risk evaluation it might happen to the next guy is even more speculation.
 
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cattmando

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The parts list for the 2015 NC700XD at Partzilla.com shows only one version of the shifter pin. Someone else already mentioned the center digits denote different vendors. The last three denote version # if I remember correctly.

Conjecture: the thread locker is applied at manufacture, comes already applied on a new part. Maybe it wasn't applied as intended?

( )

Mod EDIT:
Correction........center 3 digits are product code ( specific to the original use not its current use) .........last three digits are the version and or manufacture and or vendor coding. The last 3 can be stretched to 5 digits for finish, color etc.
 
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dreamer

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I did not notice any shifter pin reports with 750s, only 700s. Also 2016+ models have new part number for the pin (the same part number is shared with CRF1000L Africa Twin for example). So, can we draw a conclusion from this, that newer models may be in a better position as far as possible problems with loose/broken shifter pins? Maybe Honda is doing something different now to avoid some of this issues?
 

b_rubenstein

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So, can we draw a conclusion from this, that newer models may be in a better position as far as possible problems with loose/broken shifter pins? Maybe Honda is doing something different now to avoid some of this issues?

Probably not. Engineering changes can be driven by any number of reasons. Most companies keep track of failures and categorize them by criticality. Failures that happen often and can result in injury get rated high and get immediate attention. Rare failures that don't cause injury are rated low (probably the category of this DTC issue) may sit on a list for years. There are many other reasons for making changes, and one of them is cost reduction. It's cheaper to use one part in multiple applications than multiple parts. From our, outside vantage point, there's no way of knowing why Honda made the change.
 

cattmando

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Last update on this thread: NaNCy got me to the hospital in Penn Yan, NY to get my busted ankle splinted. I am now back in Kingman, AZ and the bike is stored in Rochester, NY. I'll fly back around the end of august to resume travel.

The tranny is working fine, have to assume all those issues are now past. My personal motion is temporarily limited. I hate crutches. :(
 

Beterraba

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Last update on this thread: NaNCy got me to the hospital in Penn Yan, NY to get my busted ankle splinted. I am now back in Kingman, AZ and the bike is stored in Rochester, NY. I'll fly back around the end of august to resume travel.

The tranny is working fine, have to assume all those issues are now past. My personal motion is temporarily limited. I hate crutches. :(


hope you are better

i wana thank you for all the great information you did put on this forum!!!

the best information about this problem in the internet is yours. cheers
 

Beterraba

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cattmando

i also did the job myself in my nc 750x 2014
i put the new pin (black one)...the previous and the bad was gray/silver

thank you very much...your tips were gold along side the service manual

hope you are ok!
cheers
 

cattmando

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cattmando

i also did the job myself in my nc 750x 2014
i put the new pin (black one)...the previous and the bad was gray/silver

thank you very much...your tips were gold along side the service manual

hope you are ok!
cheers

Did you have the same problem on your 750? First I've heard on a newer bike. You will see elsewhere, Nancy has gone to the big breaker in the sky. Nancy 2 is now in the garage, 40,000 fewer miles and no shifting problems. All is good in NW Arizona. Glad to hear my tips helped.
 
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