DCT Fault. Argh!

cattmando

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Stranded yesterday near Tuba City. AZ. Had a glitch in Grand Canyon South, stuck in traffic. Selected neutral, not normal for me. After a couple minutes turned the engine off. When traffic started moving, turned ignition on but no neutral light, pushing buttons did nothing. Turned ignition off and on, got neutral and started normally. Carried on toward Tuba City. 2 miles east of US89 and US160 intersection, lost all motive force just free wheeling. Gear selector said 2, couldn't gear neutral light. Slight "click" as if gear was partially selected. Dead in the water. Note this was while driving, not at a stop. Coasted into a wide spot off the road and called for help.

Friend drove over from Kingman (260 miles) to rescue me. Got home at 3 this morning.
.Fiddled this morning until got neutral light. After reading on this site and in the service manual, tried several things to no avail. Bike starts and runs fine but will not shift out of neutral.

Worst part, this was supposed to be the start of a 3 month trip. Now, even if I get her going, I don't feel I can trust the bike for a 10,000 mile journey way out into Nova Scotia. :(

And, I'm going to miss my grand daughter's birthday in Illinois. :(

DCT shows 86 (Communication Fault) and 9 (Clutch Line EOP Sensor). Frustration doesn't begin to cover it. I don't feel I can trust this bike for a long trip. At 30,000 miles, similar age and mileage to other folks who have had the broken shifter pin. Is That a likely outcome or am I missing something simple?
 

cattmando

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I took my battery in for a load test, tests as new. Guaranteed the battery connections are tight. I also disconnected all my add-on electrics except the LED headlight. Maybe need to do that too.

As of now, bike starts fine, engine sounds as normal, N light is lit. Will not shift from neutral. I feel like I'm missing something simple, feeling very frustrated. Help!
 
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cattmando

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It's probably just me, but just saw MIL defined. Malfunction Indicator Light. And it was on a post at this site. Still haven't seen it defined in the manual. Feeling very frustrated. :(
 

cattmando

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Haven't even pulled the owners manual, assumed the service manual would have everything. I'll do that.

Side stand seems okay but I'll check. Bike is on the center stand with side stand up, and it's in neutral so side stand switch is out of the circuit. Bike starts and runs okay, just can't shift into gear.

DUH! All definitions are on page 1-2 of the service manual.

MIL blinks to read out DTC code from the PCM at MCS connected to the DLC. If MCS is not available, short the G and Br wires att the DLC using the SCS service connector. Or a thin paper clip. ;)

Just deciphering all the alphabet has been a learning process.

I've also pulled a bunch of plastic just to get to some stuff. Haven't actually performed any troubleshooting tests beyod the clutch reset procedure. Also working on my Kawasaki so I'll have something to ride while this one is down.

Any details on the "broke shift pin"? I can't find that post.
 
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cattmando

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I will take your comment as intended. Just possible the switch went faulty by coincidence though it has worked properly up to the the point of the failure. Too late tonight, I'll check it all in the AM. Just got my Kawasaki gas tank sealed up so at least I've got a ride in the meantime.

IF the switch went bad at the least opportune moment, would the clutch open and attempt to go to Neutral? Cause that was the symptom. Since it had already faulted just an hour earlier, and recovered quickly, I just assumed both events were related. Maybe not.

Update in the AM
 

HarveyM

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No, if memory serves dropping the side stand in gear kills the engine. It works the same on DCT or manual tranny bikes.

Edit- That is the recommended side stand test (owner's manual).
 
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cattmando

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lootzyan wins the initial prize as the side stand was down when I went to check, after his intial post. But, it had not been down douring intial attempts. My bad.

Read the codes via the MIL. Wasn't aware they could be read by the - indicator. Haven't seen that yet in the manual. I reset the codes and they haven't returned. Transient faults?

I did the clutch Initialize Learning Procedure. Now able to shift to First. Can't change to S or M, can't shift back to Neurtral unless ignition is turned off. Did drive around the driveway one time, clutch can be made to engage.

Was getting "clicking" noises, like a relay slowly cycling. Would do it 4 or 5 times then quit. Now, it does at least engage. Didn't get up to speed at all so don't know if it will shift.

Gonna go thru more troubleshooting procedures soon's the Kawasaki is back together. More trouble there as the bottom of the tank is riddled with pin holes and can't find a replacement.

Called the local Honda shop, they can't get it in for at least three weeks. Gonna make an appointment anyway. If we figure it out before then, I can always cancel.

Aaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!
 

cattmando

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Curious, what's the purpose of the Test Probe, 2 packs? Is there a protection circuit or such built in to them or is just a convenience for reaching into the connectors? I used a flattened paper clip to replace the SCS service connector, as suggested on this site. Worked a charm.
 

cattmando

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Found the Shift Indicator "-" Blink Pattern on page 12-12. I'd seen it before but didn't realize it was different than the MIL. I'm making slow progress but still no joy.
 

cattmando

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Latest update: went thru the "-" blink pattern process. Used the sidestand, got no faults indicated. Shut everything off, back to standard configuration, started it up and all seems normal. Took it around the block, all normal. Shifted to S and then to M, down and up thru the gears. Again, all normal. At the lowest point on this route, .6 miles from home, at a stop sign, she popped into Neutral unbidden. Wouldn't shift into gear. Turned it off and cycled the sidestand. Started up again and all normal the rest of the way home.

So, kuddos #2 to lootzyan. Looks like the sidestand switch is intermittent. And, if so, it's all my fault for hanging a thicker base on it. Weak spring(?) allowing the side stand to bounce on rough pavement (of which we have a lot) may have got to the point where the switch uperates unbidden.

Again, what's the indication if the sidestand is deployed while riding? I'm gonna order a new switch, and short the current one in the meantime. I'm old enough to remember when we didn't have any safety protocol. We don't need no stinking OSHA. :D

I should have mentioned the hockey puck sooner, tho I did mention it when I installed it a few thousand miles ago. I'll keep y'all posted.
 
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Jos

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The side stand switch is supposed to kill the engine, but who knows, on very short contact it may just fail to so while at the same time put the clutch in safe mode...
 

670cc

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As a demonstration, what happens if you intentionally drop the sidestand a bit while you’re riding along?

I don’t have a DCT, so I wouldn’t know what to expect on a DCT model.
 

Jos

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Nope, engine stops, no more oil pressure, clutch disengages. This is a safety design, DCT clutch is off by default (disks apart) and requires sufficient pressure to push then together to link gearbox to secondary drive.
 

cattmando

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I'll check a few more things but right now all seems good. I will remove the hockey puck and go from there. Anxious to prove it's all my fault. Rather short between the headsets than short in the PCM. :)
 

cattmando

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Rode toward Bull Head City yesterday after a no fault short ride on Monday. One glitch early, went to neutral on its own (again) and had to cycle the ignition. Carried on and all seemed well until Bull Head when she started acting up again. Buttons not working. Stuck briefly in second at a stop, generally not shifting right, assume "default" mode. Had to stop for gas. Went thru the whole "oh, shit" process including rocking on the tire to get back to neutral, just as the original fault.

Made it home, pulled the Code's. No Code's on the MIL but 12 Code's on the DTC "-", 3 which aren't in the book.

Common element so far on all the codes is PCM. Book suggests Replace With A Known Good Unit. Like we've all got one laying around.

I'm going to clear the Code's and do a local run around, see what comes back. First, check all the connectors.

36, 40, 46, 47, 49, 52, 57, 61, 62, 66, 67, 71.

I changed oil and filter just before all this, Rotella 10W40. Did not change DTC filter as only 10,000 miles. Also changed out turn signal flasher and bulbs with solid state units. Rewired my running lights too but all that should reduce amperage. Battery has been tested and appears good. Voltages look good static and while running, alternator shows 14 vdc at battery terminals.

<Heavy Sigh> My summer trip out of Arizona is at jeopardy. :(
 

HarveyM

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I'm sure the moderators are going to hate me for this, but I don't think Rotella (T5) 10W40 is wet clutch approved (Jaso MA, MA2). Since the double clutch uses oil pressure to work you might be adding to your problems....
 

cattmando

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I cleared the Code's and am taking a run around the neighborhood, lots of stop and go, and never far from home.

I'll change the oil again if y'all think I should, but Rotella (not synthetic) meets specs.
 
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