10w30... Honda says no more?!

[what next]

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/mT-6K6LE7ogiCwArhGn6hgxZSCD_vWI7Y0vOrAMnYho?feat=directlink
I walked into my dealer just last Tuesday asked Chuck for some oil for my bike this is what he gave me.

 

[Spaceteach]

The way viscosity ratings were explained to me were a little different. I was told that 10W40 meant the oil was 10w when cold, but instead of being 40W when hot it was the same viscosity as hot single 40w oil. In other words, all oil gets thinner as it gets hotter, but multiple viscosity oils don't thin out as much with heat as single weight. If 10W40 actually increased in viscosity as it got hot, hot oil would drain slower than cold when you do your oil changes.

I'm not saying the above is right, but that's the way I was told it works.

Bob

 

[OriginalRocket]

The way viscosity ratings were explained to me were a little different. I was told that 10W40 meant the oil was 10w when cold, but instead of being 40W when hot it was the same viscosity as hot single 40w oil. In other words, all oil gets thinner as it gets hotter, but multiple viscosity oils don't thin out as much with heat as single weight. If 10W40 actually increased in viscosity as it got hot, hot oil would drain slower than cold when you do your oil changes.

I'm not saying the above is right, but that's the way I was told it works.

Bob

- Bob is the Oil Guy

Quality info, real world used oil analysis by members, data to search through.

The guy that ran his NC700X on a 8,000 mile oil change interval posted his results there.

 

[Fuzzy]

There is a lot of misinformed and urban legend comments in this thread. In multi-viscosity oils the "W" is short for "Winter", and "10W" is how the oil performs in cold engine. It is important for initial lubrication when starting a cold engine in cold weather. The second number is viscosity at 100C, a normal engine operating temperature. 10w40 is thicker than 10w30 at any temperature.

The engine will appear to run OK on most any motorcycle oil, but the question is how long? The best bet for long engine life is to stick with Honda's recommendation.

 

[bo7o]

In the end I put in the 10W40, but I'm going to replace with 10W30 (Amsoil or Honda synthetic) long before the 8000 mile interval.
I figured better to change now than drive past the 600 initial interval... especially after I saw those images of all the metal shavings that can be there.

 

[2wheelcager]

Out of a mechanics mouth who went through Honda's service training, 10W30 is now used since 2006 for a slight possible bump in fuel economy but almost all dealers use bulk 10w40. Both are in the service manual, and with the shearing that will happen since the tranny shares the engine oil you are much better off with 10w40 for long term protection. Shell Rotella 5w40 is just the ticket and very affordable for its quality. I would like to see an oil analysis just for viscosity at 8k. You'd never go that long again I bet.

 

[frozenpoet]

My dealer said that when honda ships the bikes they have 10w40 in it.

 

[Trev96]

For a machine with the DCT gearbox it would be best to stick to the handbook; the twin clutch unit and engine share oil, albeit with an extra clutch oil filter. 10W40 might have a detrimental effect on gear shifts when hot.

 

[showkey]

For a machine with the DCT gearbox it would be best to stick to the handbook; the twin clutch unit and engine share oil, albeit with an extra clutch oil filter. 10W40 might have a detrimental effect on gear shifts when hot.

See post #18...........10W-40 is approved. Picture of the handbook

There is nothing like a good oil thread................

 

[yticolev]

For a machine with the DCT gearbox it would be best to stick to the handbook; the twin clutch unit and engine share oil, albeit with an extra clutch oil filter. 10W40 might have a detrimental effect on gear shifts when hot.

The single clutch unit also shares engine oil. It is very unlikely that 40 weight versus 30 weight would make any substantive difference, even if Honda didn't already approve both weights.

I did some reading on Used Oil Analysis motorcycle forum this weekend. Fascinating reading with posters that regularly send their used oil out for analysis. A couple things stood out: one is that sharing engine oil with the transmission quickly causes shearing of the oil, dropping its its effective SAE weight. Because of that, using synthetic oils such as Rotella T6 are unlikely to result in cost benefits that they can have in regular vehicles because of the relatively short intervals for oil changes in motorcycles. They shear about as quickly as any other oil.

I lengthen the oil change in my cars dramatically with synthetics and a recent engine tear down at 150,000 miles showed engine cylinders that still looked pristine. But I won't be doing that on the NC, I think Honda's recommendations of 8,000 miles are probably a good idea. I'm not so sure that sharing oil between the transmission, engine, and clutch is so great, but the manufacturing benefits must be pretty good considering how common it is for motorcycles.

Anyway, for anyone who really wants to get into an oil discussion or learn more, Bob is the Oil Guy looks like one of the best places to do that.

 

[dduelin]

Out of a mechanics mouth who went through Honda's service training, 10W30 is now used since 2006 for a slight possible bump in fuel economy but almost all dealers use bulk 10w40. Both are in the service manual, and with the shearing that will happen since the tranny shares the engine oil you are much better off with 10w40 for long term protection. Shell Rotella 5w40 is just the ticket and very affordable for its quality. I would like to see an oil analysis just for viscosity at 8k. You'd never go that long again I bet.

This is incorrect. A 10w-30 is better for shearing compared to 10w-40. (dino oil not synthetic) The reason is they both start with 10w base stock and then an additive package containing long chain polymers creates an oil that flows like a 30 or 40w oil at operating temperatures. The 10w40 has longer polymers (4x10) and by volume more polymers and less base stock compared to the 10w30 (3x10). At the end of a test period any 10w40 shears down more than 10w30s do. If shearing is really important in a dino oil a 15w40 is better because it has even more 15w base stock and less polymers by volume (15x2.667). Synthetics do not use the same method to achieve a multiviscosity range and are less affected by shearing, thus we can live with a 5x7 base stock/polymer ratio almost immune to shearing down.

 

[frozenpoet]

There are three things that should never be talked about on a forum. Politics, Religion, and Oil.

 

[bo7o]

See post #18...........10W-40 is approved. Picture of the handbook

There is nothing like a good oil thread................

while 10W40 is in the graphic - it's never listed in any of the text in either the owner's manual or the service manual, I would expect it to be listed in the viscosity section - only 10W30 is.

 

[John Boy]

This is incorrect. A 10w-30 is better for shearing compared to 10w-40. (dino oil not synthetic) The reason is they both start with 10w base stock and then an additive package containing long chain polymers creates an oil that flows like a 30 or 40w oil at operating temperatures. The 10w40 has longer polymers (4x10) and by volume more polymers and less base stock compared to the 10w30 (3x10). At the end of a test period any 10w40 shears down more than 10w30s do. If shearing is really important in a dino oil a 15w40 is better because it has even more 15w base stock and less polymers by volume (15x2.667). Synthetics do not use the same method to achieve a multiviscosity range and are less affected by shearing, thus we can live with a 5x7 base stock/polymer ratio almost immune to shearing down.

So in English for us dummies out here........

 

[dduelin]

So in English for us dummies out here........

Both 10w30 and 10w40 are acceptable.

 

[Mike Cash]

I have a question.

In a world where seemingly everything synthetic derives from oil.....what is synthetic oil made out of?

(Sure, I could google it. But where's the fun in that?)

 

[dduelin]

I have a question.

In a world where seemingly everything synthetic derives from oil.....what is synthetic oil made out of?

(Sure, I could google it. But where's the fun in that?)

Synthetic oils are made variously from olefins, esters from fatty acids in organic matter, or from natural gas.

Some popular synthetics like Rotella T6 aren't really pure synthetics at all but rather just very highly refined crude oil from dead plants and animals mixed with a small quantity of one of the above in order to improve low temperature performance performance of the oil.

"Synthetic" in labeling is a marketing term, not a physical description.

 

[showkey]

Both 10w30 and 10w40 are acceptable.

Are you sure........"it's only in the graphic not in the text"........... (Just kidding no offence)


Like I said there's nothing like a good oil thread.

 

[Mike Cash]

Synthetic oils are made variously from olefins, esters from fatty acids in organic matter, or from natural gas.

Some popular synthetics like Rotella or Delo aren't really pure synthetics at all but rather just very highly refined crude oil from dead plants and animals mixed with a small quantity of one of the above in order to improve low temperature performance performance of the oil.

"Synthetic" in labeling is a marketing term, not a physical description.

Thank you very much. So at least some components of "synthetic" oil are quite natural, then.

 

[westgl]

The thicker the oil the less volume speed that gets through your engine, as the cooler oil touching any aluminum surface slow way down and sticks to that surface,

that is why most new car companies have gone to very light oils, on start up 0-30 weight pumps a lot of volume very quickly.

Here you have a double edge sword, but anything close should be fine

I have using Shell Rotella T6 5w-40 Synthetic in some of my bikes it works very well.

In some goldwings i am using Chevron Delo400LE Dino OIL 15w-40 it make the Trans shift very smooth or, ROTELLA T6, 15w-40

I have Mobil 1 (Natural gas derivative) for years but it does not seem to work as well as delo400LE or Rotella,

Main thing in any oil that you use is DO NOT USE ANYTHING THAT SAYS " ENERGY SAVING" or "ENERGY CONSERVING" on the label this will make the clutch slip and will cause you some problems