Wonder why motorcycle companies are now posting ABS disclaimers?

[Old Can Ride]

* Depending on road surface conditions, such as wet, loose, or uneven roads, braking distance for an ABS-equipped vehicle may be longer than for a vehicle not equipped with ABS. ABS cannot prevent wheel skidding caused by braking while cornering. Please drive carefully and do not overly rely on ABS.

I wonder why motorcycle companies are now posting ABS disclaimers? Anyone know?

 

[wickerman]

How Harley-Davidson Got Sued Over ABS Brakes & Why You Can?t Buy an Airbag Leather Suit in the USA

 

[Todd L.]

The reason is that most people think ABS is the second coming of Christ, when in fact it can be quite the opposite in most conditions. The only time ABS may actually reduce your distance is on a perfectly dry road, and it still won't eliminate skidding. Any time you add wet, loose, or uneven roads, the distance can be increased substantially. My riding partner went off the road once to avoid an accident and once off the pavement the ABS prevented his bike from braking at all! He has since disabled it on every bike he has owned after thoroughly testing his braking in different conditions afterwards. I think there should always be a disabling feature so people have the choice on ABS equipped bikes. Off-road it is intolerable.

 

[Fuzzy]

The same reason a refrigerator box has a warning it is heavy after some idiot sued a refrigerator company after he hurt his back lifting one.

As to the anecdotal evidence of abs not working, mostly not true and / or older designs. The varying road conditions is actually a big part of the advantage. HondaBikePro posted a review where a professional rider couldn't match the stopping distance on gravel. He also rides his NC with ABS off road extensively and says it works well. I also know folks who refuse to wear seatbelts because they know someone who couldn't get out of one in a burning car. WRONG ANSWER

 

[vodapas]

I also know folks who refuse to wear seatbelts because they know someone who couldn't get out of one in a burning car. WRONG ANSWER

Worse, "Cause my (uncle, cousin, fairy godmother, etc) knows a guy who told them about someone who they knew that died because they couldn't get out of their seat belt after an accident." It's just like urban legends. It's never someone they actually knew or even someone they knew through someone else. It's just this mythical story that when actually researched is complete BS, but they'll literally bet their lives it's true. I went off on one my Sailors when I was stationed in HI because he used one of those BS stories as justification to refuse to buckle-up when he got in my car. WRONG ANSWER.

 

[lootzyan]

Anti-lock braking system for motorcycles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"....A report of the European Transport Safety council showed that riding a motorcycle is 20 times more dangerous than driving a car the same distance. And the accidents situation in Germany from 1990 to 2011 showed that that total traffic fatalities decreased drastically (11 000 to 4 009) but motorcycle fatalities remained constant. [12]

The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) conducted a study on the effectiveness of ABS for motorcycles and came to the conclusion that motorcycles above 250cc equipped with ABS are 37 percent less likely to be involved in fatal crashes and a study of the Swedish Road Administration came to the conclusion that 48 percent of all severe and fatal motorcycle accidents above 125cc could be avoided due to motorcycle ABS[13]

These studies caused the EU commission to initiate a legislative process in 2010 that was passed in 2012 and led to ABS for motorcycles above 125 cc becoming mandatory from 2016 onwards. Organizations like the Federation International de l’Automobile and the Institute of advanced Motorists (IAM) demanded the implementation of this legislation already for 2015.[14] On the other hand some motorcycle riders are protesting against a compulsory ABS for all bikes because they call for a possibility to switch the system off, for e.g. off road usage.[15] [16] [17] In 2011 the United Nations (UN) started the Decade of Action for Road Safety. The main goal is to safe 5 million lives until 2020 through global cooperation.[18] One part of their global plan is to: Encourage universal deployment of crash avoidance technologies with proven effectiveness such as Electronic Stability Control and Anti-Lock Braking Systems in motorcycles."

RIGHT ANSWER.
Old Can Read

 

[Old Can Ride]

Here is what the American Motorcycle Association has to say on the ABS matter.

Myths Busted: Anti-Lock Braking Systems

 

[lootzyan]

Here is what the American Motorcycle Association has to say on the ABS matter.

Myths Busted: Anti-Lock Braking Systems

So who are myths-makers? This article is about known facts check – ABS works.

 

[gharshman]

On pavement, I want ABS most of the time, except when I feel like being a hooligan.

On dirt, it should be disabled. Any serious ADV bike should allow disabling ABS.

 

[gharshman]

Here is what the American Motorcycle Association has to say on the ABS matter.

Myths Busted: Anti-Lock Braking Systems

I agree with this article. Balanced and insightful.

 

[Fuzzy]

42 years ago I took a ride on the Dilbert Dunker. For a kid who grew up around the water it was no big deal. A friend couldn't get out and swallowed some water before the divers pulled him out. Swore the seatbelt jammed on him. He had the guts to get back in 2 more times and each time he swore the seatbelt jammed. Didn't jam on any of the other 100+ in our group. In panic situations simple things become difficult. There are people stuck in cars who cannot get their seatbelts off and live to tell about it. Truth is, if the seatbelt had not been their problem they probably wouldn't have been able to work the door handle to get the door open.

You can find plenty of videos of the Dilbert Dunker if you are unfamiliar with it. The Navy uses it to train pilots how to get out of an airplane that goes down in the water. They developed it after realizing pilots who were uninjured drowned with their seatbelts still on unable to get out of the plane under water.

 

[gharshman]

Fuzzy used the right word --- "panic".

There are a LOT of inexperienced riders who cannot modulate their own brakes. Good riders practice locking up on hard deceleration --- so that they know what it feels like, and more importantly how to control it and when you can unlock the brakes.

 

[vodapas]

You can find plenty of videos of the Dilbert Dunker if you are unfamiliar with it. The Navy uses it to train pilots how to get out of an airplane that goes down in the water. They developed it after realizing pilots who were uninjured drowned with their seatbelts still on unable to get out of the plane under water.

Oh what fun it is. Especially upside down and blindfolded.

 

[Old Can Ride]

Everyone will always find themselves in a situation they have never experienced. We would all like to have all the technology available at our disposal. But unfortunately some folks in the USA can dance quite well!

[video=youtube;Kl8ajhu_e5Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl8ajhu_e5Y[/video]

 

[anglachel]

Every bit of safety technology added to cars over the last 20 years has had opponents...

Seatbelts kill more people than they save, airbags kill more people than they save, and takes long to stop, stability control makes the car go places you don't want it to, back up camera make people complacent, self driving cars will kill thousands... and so on.

Truth is people don't like change, it's why Harley hasn't changed the look of their bikes... but change will happen, I thank the skeptics for their skepticism, it results in a better product in the end because of their constant questioning... but in the end we'll all have abs, and wonder why any one would have ever tried to fight it.

 

[Chris]

The disclaimer comes from the lawyers who are there to cover every possible claim and give reasons to reject it or defend against it in court. It's not written for the majority of riders. It's there to say that ABS does not prevent skidding in all conditions.

I like the fact I've got ABS on my NC - it's a back up for when I mess up, which I will do occasionally.

Most of the time ABS is a good thing to have - it's saved me from one likely drop in the last two years when I slammed the brakes on because cars in front of me stopped suddenly and unexpectedly. It's the only time I've had ABS cut in and I'd probably have locked the wheels and dropped the bike without it.

But it won't save us from all possible skids or braking errors. Most obvious is if you slide out because of leaning too far in a corner. Braking and ABS have no influence on that sort of skid - but some people seem to think ABS is a general anti-skid function.

It can also prolong stopping distance on some surfaces - my car frequently does that on snow, I have to cadence brake to overcome that, if I keep my foot on the brake pedal it keeps on rolling downhill as the ABS keeps on pulsing, despite having winter tyre fitted.

On the bike I can't ride in the sort of conditions that mess up my car's ABS though - because I can't get from my garage to the road on the bike in those conditions.

One problem I see very often in the winter: The new technology (like ATC) lets drivers get their vehicles going even in the most dreadful conditions, whereas once upon a time they'd sit there spinning their wheels but it doesn't help them get around the first corner if they're doing 50 when they should be doing 20.

 

[Deleted member 1183]

ABS is an aid to rider safety, no more, no less. Imho, if it fails to stop the bike making contact in a collision situation then in all probability one was going to collide one way or another. The ABS will have probably softened the impact.

ABS once saved my bacon on my Triumph. I was approaching a hidden backroad junction. It was hidden by bushes as was the sign warning of its presence. I only saw it at the last moment and hit the brakes hard on a wet surface. The ABS kicked in and I came to a halt on the edge of the junction as a car passed through at speed only a foot in front of me. From that day on I have valued ABS. I have it on my NC, and when on it or the Triumph I generally feel more confident on the bike especially in the wet, because I know I can brake a little harder with more confidence.

The only down side of ABS is that three of my bikes do not have it. That is not a problem on the two singles as their brakes are adequate and it takes a serious pressure to lock them up. However the third bike has high performance Brembos on the front wheel and it is a light bike. Tbh, that bike is over braked. Problem is I do not ride that bike very often, so I have to be careful when I ride it for at least an hour or so until my brain becomes accustomed to the performance of the brakes. Last year I had a low speed off on that bike. I am satisfied that if it had had ABS I would not have fallen in that particular situation.

I am all for ABS. However if it fails me at some point I will not holding it responsible unless there is a clear fault in the system. I am aware of its limitations and despite them, I am glad to have it.

 

[anglachel]

One problem I see very often in the winter: The new technology (like ATC) lets drivers get their vehicles going even in the most dreadful conditions, whereas once upon a time they'd sit there spinning their wheels but it doesn't help them get around the first corner if they're doing 50 when they should be doing 20.

Invariably, the first good snow storm will end with many vehicles in the ditch, I've no scientific data, but best a can gather from personal experience is that 3 out of 4 (maybe more) of the motorists in the ditch have all wheel drive, many have electric stability control, abs, and other crash avoidance technologies. What they often lack is decent tires (all seasons or snow tires, with plenty of tread) and cautious drivers.

No tech can fix stupid (though I hear you can install programs that keep people from posting youtube comments, so maybe there is hope...) and nothing replaces functional tires when conditions are slippery...

 

[Mike Cash]

The whole world has gone nuts.



In the upper left, it tells you that the product is hard-boiled eggs.

In the lower right it tells you...contains the following allergens: eggs.

Sometimes you have to laugh to keep from crying.


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[OldJeff]

I like ABS on my truck, it just works. My NCX doesn't have ABS and I'm not sure I want it on my bike, I like being able to choose which brake I'm using depending on what I'm doing and on hard braking/locked up tires, the NCX handles perfectly. Unlike any other bike I've ever rode.