Valve check - ended badly.

[josh4tennis]

My 24000 km service has come up, and following a quote from Honda for R5000 I politely declined and decided to get my hand's dirty. A little side note, to put into perspective how much that is, I bought the tools necessary for the job and the replacement parts for R2000 less. However, I'm not looking to slight anyone who makes use of dealership services, in fact I would promote the idea. It was just something I figured I could do to save a little money and grow my tool collection.

Anyway, yesterday, as part of the service, I went ahead and did my valve check/adjustment. It was all fine and well as I'm pretty handy and now have the necessary tools. I removed the radiator, unbuttoned her, and did the check (which I'm glad I did, as cylinder 2 exhaust were tight beyond spec). However, when putting the valve cover back on - disaster. The last of the three bolts used to hold the cover in place broke off inside the engine block. The piece that broke off is seeted inside the block, with nothing sticking out. I am 100% sure, as I took precautions to ensure this, that the bolt was not being cross-threaded, nor being tightened beyond spec. So it came as a shock... But I guess this stuff happens.

I would like to find out if you have any experience and knowledge as to how to remove a broken bolt from an engine block. Unfortunately I don't have any photos of the exact bolt and how it's seeted as I didn't plan to document the procedure, but I will add two photos to show which one it is. Also, would it be possible to ride to a shop with a slightly loose valve cover? I would imagine some, or maybe a lot of oil would leak from the seal.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

On second thoughts - maybe I should have bitten the bullet and just taken it to the dealer

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[HarveyM]

Sorry it ended badly. At this point it might be better to take it to a machine shop to have them remove the broken stud. I would ride it- the valve cover juct keeps the oil in and dirt out. I would run some duct tape around the joint as a backup seal.

For do it yourself; The first step would be to get the proper sized left handed drill bit (it spins in the opposite direction than normal drill bits). Center punch the stud to put a large enough dimple in the stud so the drill bit doesn't wander & damage your head casting. Then drill out the center of the stud. (try starting with a small bit and work your way up to larger sizes) The friction of the drill bit is often enough to spin out the damaged part. It's better (safer) to remove the head to do this, so it can be done on a drill press rather than by hand (but if you're careful it can be done by hand). If the drilling doesn't do it, next you need a stud extractor which is spun (or pounded in depending on the style) into the stud (it's made of a very herd, but brittle metal) grips the and twisted out.


Once the stud is out check the head threads for damage- repair steps range from running a thread tap through for minor damage to replacing the threads with a re-thread insert.

 

[NCSOTA]

Most of the people on the forum are better mechanics than me so you may get a better suggestion later but here is what I would do.
Get a proper size EZ out. That is like a reverse thread screw. Then you need to very carefully drill a pilot hole down the center of the remaining bolt shaft taking care to not wander off into the threads. Insert your EZ out into the pilot hole and back the bolt shaft out. Get a new bolt and you are back on the road!

Good luck, Joe

 

[Old Can Ride]

You can try using a small back out tool. I am about 50% when using blackouts. If that does not work, you will have to get a helicoil kit. Make sure to stuff rags everywhere around where you are drilling, so no metal enters the lower engine.

 

[NCSOTA]

Looks like HarveyM was replying at the same time. His post is better-with pictures and is what I was trying to describe.

Good luck!

Joe

 

[tngw1500se]

............. At this point it might be better to take it to a machine shop to have them remove the broken stud............

That's the best advice! But you could get a few beers and DIY it. The worst that could happen is you end up buying an engine.

 

[showkey]

It is very likely not as bad as it looks.

The good news is the broken studs are not stuck or rusted in place. So they are loose in the head. Using a pin punch and a small hammer the stud usually can be worked around and out by tapping on the edge of the bolt with a punch or pin punch.

Plan B an 1/8 left hand drill bit will likely zip them out. Again they are loose in the head so walk right out. They usually not need to drilled out, just spin them out.

This is not the best picture but it illustrates the concept of tapping on the edge of the broken stud with a punch. It does not take much effort to move the loose stud, small tapping with a small punch and small hammer. It does take a little finesse or skill and patience to work the stud around .......so getting help from a more experienced "mechanic" friend might be needed.

 

[josh4tennis]

Showkey, thank's for that advice! I didn't realise the stud was actually loose in the head... I simply took a small hammer and screw driver and worked it out as you suggested. It took a good (and patient) 10-15min or so, but in the end it got the job done. All I need now is to replace the broken bolt. I'm grateful I don't have to take it in to the shop! This had me worried - as I'm sure we've all heard of those nightmare stories.

Thanks again,

Josh

 

[potter0o]

Congrats, its always nice to make a save . Not sure if you were using a torque wrench to tighten the bolts. If you were and had it set right, you may want to replace it with a new one.

 

[josh4tennis]

My wallet agrees PotterOo I had the same thought - it might be time to replace my torque wrench, though I had already tightened the other two bolts with no problems. So a little odd.

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[sumo]

I know nothing so just a dumb question. Is it broken off deep down in there?

I'm very interested in how you make out as I will be doing my valves in a few thousand km's and didn't even know where the valve cover was until I saw this picture! I don't know what it means for valves to be 'tight', but I want to learn, so will do it myself. It's all part of the sport.

I think you made the right decision to do it yourself because the same thing would have happened to the tech at the dealership and who knows what kind of fixes they might have tried. This way you are in control of getting it fixed properly. Just my opinion of course.

You CAN do it!

PS: I couldn't care less about the valves on my car. Poor thing! LOL.

 

[sumo]

Well I obviously spent too much time working on my post! Congrats! I knew you could do it!

 

[josh4tennis]

Sumo, the people on this forum are most helpful. I managed to learn by watching a video on YouTube, and reading some threads. If you take the time to learn and understand not just what to do, but how things actually work, you will slowly grow in your knowledge of these machines.

I would encourage you to do it yourself, though make sure you know exactly what you're going to need to do, and how to do it before you open her up. I'm no expert by any means, but I'm all about learning from others and encouraging them to do the same.

In that photo, the red arrow is pointing to the spot where it had broken off... however, I took that photo before I adjusted the valved and started putting her back together. I took two photos earlier today which you can see in my previous post of how it looked.

Happy tinkering, and I hope this job goes better for you then it did for me!


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[jayceegee]

"I'm very interested in how you make out as I will be doing my valves in a few thousand km's and didn't even know where the valve cover was until I saw this picture! I don't know what it means for valves to be 'tight', but I want to learn, so will do it myself. It's all part of the sport".

I'm sure that I am a minority on this site being that I totally disagree with the above statement : It's all part of the sport. I totally enjoy the sport of motorcycle riding without having to tear apart an engine to see what makes it tick or make it tick better, change the suspension around to make it a little firmer or softer, change tires when needed and so on. Yes, I do believe one should have the skills to check the fluids, lights, horn and other safety items. Does this mean I have been missing a big portion of my sport ?? I am much happier leaving this part of the sport, as you call it, to others that enjoy, are trained, paid and knowledgeable enough to do so. Let them spend their Saturday playing in oil, grease, gas and scraping their knuckles while cussing at a broken bolt. Time is the most precious item humans have and I thinking that saving a few dollars here and there, at times is not worth it. However to those that enjoy this part of the sport - go for it and have fun. Just my opinion.

 

[Gibsito]

I just did the valve clearance check on mine last week and was looking at those bolts thinking about what would happen if I broke one off. Thankfully all went well. I had some that were a little tight too. This was the 8,000 mile check, and I know they changed the valve clearance service to 16,000 miles but thought I'd go ahead and check it anyway. Glad I did.

Glad to hear you were able to get the broken stud out without much trouble.

 

[Old Can Ride]

It is aways nice when lady luck works your way. Congrads!

 

[bvogel7475]

Great job and thanks for the writeup and pictures. I recently did the same thing with the same size intake manifold bolt on my 2005 Acura Mdx. Luckily it broke off high on the bolt so I just backed it out carefully with pliers. I overtightened three bolts using a torque wrench. I'm convinced that these small bolts should be gently snugged down by hand. I sometimes use a microdrop of blue loctite if I feel like this bolt is subject to a lot of vibration and I feel the head of the blot can easily break the loctite when I have to remove it. I stay away from torque wrenches for most everything except the big items related to drive train, brakes, suspension and axles.

 

[VE258]

there is an easy way to check the torque wrench accuracy. it probably won't be super precise,but should get the job done

I came up with a much simpler method to home-calibrate your torque wrench. It requires a spring scale that measures pounds, up to at least 50 lbs (which every respectable big fish flyfisherman should have). Larger is better, especially when you try to calibrate the 1/2" torque wrenches. Take your torque wrench and set it to say 10 ft-pounds. Find a nut or bolt that is torqued way above that value and the axis is set vertically, to eliminate the weight of the wrench from the calculation (the torque wrench should be horizontal). Place the scale hook at the hand application point on the torque wrench. Measure that distance from the socket axis (inches). Pull on the scale and take a reading when it clicks. Do this a number of times to get a mean average force (lb). Multiple by the distance (inches) and divide by 12 to get ft-lbs of torque. The difference is how much out of calibration your torque wrench is. Repeat at the next setting (20 ft-lb) and on up the range until you know how close your torque wrench is across the complete range of settings.

Can you check the accuracy of torque wrench... [Archive] - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums

 

[Antarius]

Make sure you're putting the little rubber washers in. If you don't, you'll very easily over tighten that bolt without realizing it and bam, it'll break.

 

[Gigs]

I broke one when I did mine. They break super easy which means they come back and the hammer and punch method worked great. Now you just have to wait for the dealer to order one. I told them to keep extra for me just in case.


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