The DCT continues to impress!

[Fuzzy]

Like I shared before, the DCT will grow on you. Test riding motorcycles at Bike Week reminded me I don't miss changing gears at all. And this from a guy who wouldn't even buy an automatic transmission in a car until manual transmissions became unavailable in most nice cars and trucks.

 

[Therapy]

I'm sure the DCT is a great feature and works great for the NC. I've been riding bike for over 40 years and part of riding a motorcycle, for me, is shifting the transmission. Most DCT owners seem to be new or I inexperienced motorcycles rides and the DCT just makes it easier for them to ride. For me, I want absolute control over when the bike shift. I want to pull a clutch lever with my left hand and make a shift with my left foot and I thank Honda for making a traditional version.

Almost an exact quote from my brother. He has 50+ years and is even more set in his ways. He even has "no use" for an automatic in his truck. LOL.
I have about 250k miles on bikes so may be an outlier but I love it. I may not be a super technical rider as I have never raced but the bike will shift better than a lot of people.
I remember my dad, in his early 80s, complaining that the only two really good cars ever built were the Model A and the VW Bug.
I remember my first car with an auto transmission. And my first car with AC too! In Florida that was sooo cool.
Time (and technology) marches on.
LOL.

<edit>
http://nc700-forum.com/forum/nc750-...50x-dct-shift-points-normal-4.html#post139833
#31 says it well.

 

[searsboy]

A friend of mine took out a 750 dct last week to test ride it for the local motorcycle mag. He did not like it. The transmission really bugged him, firstly because it changed up too quickly and secondly because there was virtually no engine braking on downshifts. It will be getting a bad write up from him. He even went as far as to say that the variable pulley belt transmission of the larger scooters is better. I have never ridden a DCT so I cannot comment.

Discuss........

He didn't know how to ride it!!!
Sport or manual mode woulda fixed his issues with the DCT

 

[mreric]

I can feel the downshift fine.

when you drive an Automatic honda civic and brake, the transmission on the car also downshift. but the downshift is very smooth. is like almost rev matched.

this is actually why i like the DCT for commuting. Honda built the bike for commuting. nice and smooth. the feeling of hard downshift is not necessary a great thing to feel on the everyday basis of commuting, at some point it would become annoying. this is when am talking about commuting.

but if you want fun. that hard downshift feeling is something you really want! ..... is like riding a roller coaster

I think we might get that more sporting feeling in the new Africa twin!

 

[Ruggybuggy]

Almost an exact quote from my brother. He has 50+ years and is even more set in his ways. He even has "no use" for an automatic in his truck. LOL.
I have about 250k miles on bikes so may be an outlier but I love it. I may not be a super technical rider as I have never raced but the bike will shift better than a lot of people.
I remember my dad, in his early 80s, complaining that the only two really good cars ever built were the Model A and the VW Bug.
I remember my first car with an auto transmission. And my first car with AC too! In Florida that was sooo cool.
Time (and technology) marches on.
LOL.

<edit>
http://nc700-forum.com/forum/nc750-...50x-dct-shift-points-normal-4.html#post139833
#31 says it well.

Trust me I'm completely opposite. I have all the latest gadgets form a technology stand point. I'm a Toyota Automotive Technician and it's my job to stay "up to date". I just like the fact that the manual give me completely control of my shifts. I can choose exactly when the shifts occur and how I hard or soft I want each shift. Don't get me wrong, Honda did a great job with the DCT .

And yes both my vehicle are automatics and won't want it any other way.

You have to remember most motorcycles are still manual and the DCT has been around for some time. Most experienced motorcyclists will migrate to the manual and many previous scooter riders and beginners will buy the DCT.

 

[Fuzzy]

Even the professionals are moving towards technologies that behave like DCT in manual mode. From motorcyclenews.com:

When you’re trying to hustle as quickly as you can around a racetrack, the last thing you want is to botch a downshift and ruin your lap time. It’s easily done, too, considering the fine balancing act required to pull the clutch, bang a downshift (or two… or three), throttle blip and release the clutch again while disrupting the rear tire as little as possible. That’s why we’re thrilled Ducati and BMW have introduced auto-blipping downshifters to their flagship sportbikes, eliminating the need to use the clutch or time a perfectly matched twist of the right grip.

Now all one has to do when slowing for a corner is simply push (or pull, depending on your shift pattern) the shift lever for a downshift and the 1299 Panigale or S1000RR will do the rest, including execute a perfect rev match, every time. By now we’re used to bikes with quickshifters for rowing up through the gears without using the clutch (or momentary rolling off the throttle), and we’re glad to see that gear changes in the other direction are becoming equally as simple as well.

And if you want to have manual control with a foot lever, there is a Honda option that can be purchased and installed to use the left foot for manual shifts on DCT transmission.

 

[kpinvt]

Snipped...

Most experienced motorcyclists will migrate to the manual and many previous scouted riders and beginners will buy the DCT.

If you meant to say scooter riders you can count me as one. I crashed a bike and wound up with an ankle injury that made shifting with my left foot almost impossible. I bought a Honda Silver Wing scooter to keep riding. The CVT transmission on that bike spoiled me for an auto trans. After two years and 21,000 miles, in Vermont, on the SWing I went back to real bikes and each year I rode less than the year before. My purchase of the DCT version of this bike is an attempt to get back to high mileage counts for the short riding season here. So far it seems to be working, 3500 miles so far this year without really going on any big destination rides, just commuting to work and running errands for the most part.

 

[Ruggybuggy]

Correction made "scooter", my galaxy phone can get creative with typos.

I'm just saying that Honda introduced the DCT for a very practical reason. To get more people who are intimidated with manual clutch shifting into motorcycling. The scariest thing for new riders is the manual clutch. Eliminating this gets more people on bikes. It also works for others as well for other reasons. When Honda designed the DCTsystem performance wasn't their objective but easy of use was which they accomplished but you are never going to have the same absolute control over a DCT like you do over the manual and for some that's perfectly fine. For me, I want to shift my gears and have absolute control over my clutch and not embracing the technology of a DCT has nothing to do with being "set in my ways".

 

[Therapy]

Trust me I'm completely opposite. I have all the latest gadgets form a technology stand point. I'm a Toyota Automotive Technician and it's my job to stay "up to date". I just like the fact that the manual give me completely control of my shifts. I can choose exactly when the shifts occur and how I hard or soft I want each shift. Don't get me wrong, Honda did a great job with the DCT .

And yes both my vehicle are automatics and won't want it any other way.

You have to remember most motorcycles are still manual and the DCT has been around for some time. Most experienced motorcyclists will migrate to the manual and many previous scooter riders and beginners will buy the DCT.

I'm not really discounting some (most?) wants for a manual transmission. Lots of vehicles still have them because they are wanted. I can see that in motorcycles too. I also see the move to auto-what ever. Traction control, ABS, etc.
My boys both bought NCs but opted for the manual tranny. They wanted to ride "real" motorcycles. They didn't care that they have no ABS and discounted what I said about needing that. Ah, the young and invincible...........
I'm happy that we both can get what we want.

PS. When is Toyota going to fess up and agree that yes, the Tacoma needs new transmission mapping software!!!

 

[Ruggybuggy]

PS. When is Toyota going to fess up and agree that yes, the Tacoma needs new transmission mapping software!!!

Yeah, some pretty bizarre shifting points. One of the reason I'm hanging on to my Silverado. Toyota just recruited me a couple of months ago and the wife has already bought a new Camry. One of the best places I've ever worked and the pay is fantastic.

 

[Therapy]

Money making companies usually pay pretty well.
Best of luck.

 

[scotseam]

If the manual version was available in the states with ABS I may have gone that way. I wish we had the same options as you in Canada.

 

[Akar.Zaephyr]

I'm now close to 600 miles and I agree in most of your opinions - DCT is fantastic for daily use!

But it has few drawbacks as well.
First of all, it doesn't always operate smoothly. There are a few places where I need to drive through before getting out of the block, and in these places I tend to drive at around 20 km/h which is the point where 2nd gear pops in. In order to keep the bike going steady 20-22 km/h, you need to operate the throttle really, really carefully. Half a degree too much and it starts accelerating slowly, half a degree too less, and it starts jumping. Solution? Use manual mode - but I am yet to start driving with more manual, still learning the bike a little.
Second thing - when moving in slow traffic, D mode applies 2nd gear at around 20 km/h (as stated above), but when I can't go faster due to cars also moving slowly, I sometimes don't make it to 20, staying at 19 and 1st gear. Throttle off - bike engages neutral, but when cars start accelerating, I put some throttle on to accelerate as well. I really need to be cautious operating throttle in that speed range as bike tends to get a little hoppy. If the speed is lower, below 17 km/h, gentle throttle moves the bike smoothly. It's just that small speed range when the automatic clutch doesn't always work as intended. Solution? Manual mode again
Then there's the safety concern. I hope it never happens to anyone (God, if you're listening to this - please keep us all safe!), but what if the rear wheel locks (faulty chain or whatever)? There is no clutch lever you can squeeze to save yourself so if deciding to go with DCT - keep that in mind. I personally believe that locking rear wheel due to chain failure is a marginal case and happens too rarely to pose real threat, especially when maintaining the chain on time, nevertheless the thought of such failure crosses my mind sometimes.

That said, DCT is fantastic.
No need to put neutral when stopping at lights - just apply rear brake when stopped, your hands are free to rest, and when lights change - twist and go!
No need to downshift when overtaking - just open the throttle savagely (but not too much!) and DCT will downshift even two gears down, applying enough acceleration to overtake smoothly and in no time!
And the engine sound... I know there is the "S" mode, but I really like the gurgling sound of the parallel twin when it revs low - unfortunately, the higher revs don't sound that nice anymore. So again - DCT saves the day by changing gears low when engine sounds almost like a V2. Almost, not quite there, but it still sounds sweet
Did I mention sweet mpg? I know some people say "I wouldn't buy a bike if I wanted to have a nice mpg - bikes are for fun!", but hear this: with such great mpg, you can either do more riding for the same cash, or EVEN MORE riding for the same amount of fuel more fuel-consuming bikes would! All thanks to combination of low-revving high-torque engine and DCT.

So, to summarize this too-long-anyway post, DCT is not without its flaws, but the pros way outweigh the cons in daily use imho.
It's about making an informed decision when considering DCT vs manual, in the end. Hope the above helps someone who's still deciding which side of the fence they're on.

 

[670cc]

I don't think a chain failure situation causing rear wheel lockup will benefit from squeezing a manual clutch. The lockup of the drivetrain is due to a cause after the clutch, so disconnecting the engine from the chain drive doesn't remove the fault from the situation. If the cause of the rear wheel lockup is the engine itself, then yes, disengaging the clutch could save the day if you acted quickly. Either case would be rare, indeed.

I use the manual clutch for precise speed control at very low speeds. I also use it lightly when transitioning from engine braking to acceleration in corners to remove the "snatch" from play in the drive train. Those options would be gone with DCT. Nonetheless, I have ridden DCT bikes and they do work very well.

 

[Therapy]

Akar.Z,
I saw it mentioned before somewhere and tried it myself and it works!
When in slow moving and start and stop traffic like you described - first and second gear (and even third) switch to S mode. It may not seem sporty to plug along in traffic but it works well and takes out a lot of what you are describing that irritates you.