Stock Metzeler Z8 Tire Film coating

[Lou Wambsganss]

I have seen a few people mention this issue, but could not find a dedicated thread, so I figured I would start one. Hopefully, it won't be as bad as asking what oil I should use! Hopefully, if others read and comment on this post, new riders won't be caught off guard.

When I first test rode the bike, I was pretty conservative in the corners just as a general precaution. Once I took the bike home, during my first few days of riding it, I would gradually lean the bike further over in the turns as I got more comfortable with its handling. The first few times leaning into the ever-receding "Chicken Strips", I could feel a little bit of fish-tailing from the rear. The NC is my first brand-new bike, but I have put new tires on other bikes before and have never noticed any fishing to this extent. I have put a set of Metzeler ME880s on a Yamaha Virago and don't recall any issues with them when new...

The problem is with the thick waxy/greasy film on the tires. I have seen a lot of traffic on other forums and tire websites that says Mold Release Film is a thing of the past. No tire manufacturer uses it anymore. Brand new tires should be good to go right off the shelf. Maybe that is true for some, or even most, new tires. I can say form personal experience, however, that the Metzeler Roadtec Z8 Interacts on my 2012 Honda NC700X had a thick noticeable film when new. Maybe it's Mold Release Film. Maybe it's a protective coating for shipping/storage. I don't know if it's from Metzeler, Honda, or the Dealer. I just know that it's real, and very stubborn.

I could not remove the film with a green 3M Scotch-Brite pad and Simple Green or Windex Multi-Surface. The film would just smear. I couldn't make myself spray brand new tires with Brake or Carb Cleaner. Maybe something intended for tires like Westley's Bleche-White would remove it? I don't have any to test. I'd be careful, though. That stuff is STRONG, and would probably do bad things to an O-Ring chain, maybe even the painted wheels.

I tried removing the film with 180 grit paper on an orbital sander, and the film just clogged the paper. Maybe a larger grit (like 60-80) wouldn't clog as easily.

Anyway, the only way I've found to remove the film is by riding and wearing it off on the road. As you lean into the film, be careful. I was not expecting a loss of traction like that. Luckily, I was easy on the throttle, so the rear didn't go completely out from under me, just fished back and forth a few times. I was nowhere near dragging pegs or anything like that, and the road surface was clean concrete, ambient temps in the 50s-60s, tires were not cold. After a few turns leaning at the same angle, the fishing went away. It only happens the first few times you lean into the filmed area until the film is abraded off by the road.

Here is a picture of the film, as it is being worn off by normal riding. This is my daily driver on a short commute to work. I'm not carving any corners.

 

[Deleted member 1183]

These (Metzeler) tyres are absolute rubbish. When I got the bike first, they almost undermined my confidence on it. They slipped several times wet or dry. Several times I went back on the road to try to see what made them slip. There was nothing. Fortunately I have other bikes and that convinced me it was the tyres. I replaced them with Michelin PR3's. What a transformation. I strongly recommend that you get rid of the Metzelers before they cause you problems you do not need !

 

[RobN.]

+1 Grump,
My original Metzler Z8's have a raised area right in the center on the rear tire. I have around 7k miles on them, and have made sure to check pressure simply because I am a cheap b***ard and don't want to purchase new ones until absolutely necessary. They have seemed "bumpy" to me since new.
I emailed Metzler about it and got the "well if you ride straight roads, and improper pressure" type response. Figures.
I don't trust them in corners at all, especially when the road is wet.
I bought a set of PR3's and have them waiting for when I just can't stand the Metzlers any more.
I have also had ME880's on cruiser type bikes and had trouble with them cupping badly at low mileage.
Surely there are millions of riders who like and use Metzler tires, and maybe it is just my riding habits or something, but I won't buy any more. YMMV.
RobN

 

[dduelin]

We see a lot of comments dissing the Z8s but I liked them and they have reviewed or tested well against other brands in independent objective tire tests. I don't know what the disconnect is on this low powered motorcycle but a lot of people comment on the tire breaking loose. I put PR3s on my NCX at 14,000 miles and wish I could have the Z8's handling back combined with the PR3s long wear.

As far as mold release goes, common sense dictates a break in period with any new tire. Go easy on the lean angles and hard braking until the tire is scuffed in. I usually go to a nearby parking lot and run circles and figure 8's until the tire is scuffed in then go easy on the tire for about 50 miles.

 

[Deleted member 1183]

No issue with taking it easy on a tyre for a while until it scrubs in properly. Standard procedure.

Pirelli manufacture Metzelers. However in my view, Metzeler/Pirelli seem to have lost their way in recent times. I always used Pirelli Scorpions on my KTM SM. Good tyres and no issues. Then Pirelli issued a "new" Scorpion. I thought nothing of it until I rode them for the first time. The bike started tramlining like never before. I couldn't believe it. Then other SM owners started having the same problems after the change.

I had the same issues on my Triumph Explorer. Tramlining from new, although the wet grip on those Metz's ( Tourance EXP's) was ok. One owner on here has a thread where he outlines how he hit the deck on a seemingly innocuous bend on his OEM Metzelers. I am under no illusion why, albeit there was a lot of mileage on those particular tyres. I have been riding a long time, on various bikes and lots of different tyres. In my opinion the OEM Metzeler tyres on the NC are the worst I have come across in recent times. I accept however that they may suit some riders style of riding, but they almost ruined my confidence on this Motorcycle. I cannot forgive them for that .

 

[kjang]

Ever since I got the NC (5/2013), I have been easy on turns/corners. Still doing that. I also read people fishtale/fall during a corner/turn for no apparent reason. I know by now, that slick stuff (what ever that is) is off my tires. So I tend to be on the cautious side anyways. So far, so good.

 

[Lou Wambsganss]

I am by no means an expert. I have owned 6 motorcycles (mostly old Hondas) in my approximately 10 years of riding. I have bought cheap Cheng Shins, Dunlops, and Metzelers. No other tires, including the Metzeler ME880s, has needed as much special attention when new as these Z8s. When pushed hard, the ME880s would gradually lose traction in a predictable manner. I never felt out of control or uncomfortable. These Z8s seem to give little warning and then get fishy in the middle of a turn. These are the only tires I've had that make me think about taking a turn carefully. It's not that I'm not a careful rider, or that I'm riding dangerously. It just seems to me that a good tire is basically invisible. You shouldn't have to take any special action to accommodate a specific tire. The NC is by no means a supersport and should not have any corner traction problems in good conditions, at reasonable speeds.

Overall, I really like this bike and I really enjoy riding it. However, the tires are an annoyance to me. I modded the seat to remove forward slope and make the bike fit me better. I think I will also switch to different tires to make the bike more comfortable to me. Obviously different riders have different wants, needs, and expectations. Metzeler is a big manufacturer of quality tires, so apparently some people find this tire to be acceptable. I will probably try something different when the time comes.

 

[kjang]

I know when it comes time to get replacement tires, It won't be the metzelers. Will likely get michelins since there on all my cars. However, it will be a long time till new tires. I do get even wear out of my tires. I do lean into a turn/corner just not at super lean rate or speed. Just moderately and enjoying the ride.

 

[Lou Wambsganss]

I have always had good experiences with Michelins on my trucks and cars. I swear my old Datsun 720 even shifted better (5MT) when it had Michelin LTX ATs. I will probably try out the Michelin PR3s when I need a change. The only big negative publicity I can think of for Michelin in recent years was the Indy USGP debacle in 2005. Even that was more of a team and F1 management bungle than Michelin themselves. Michelin had some bad tires, figured out the problem, made better tires, but F1 wouldn't let the teams run the new tires.

 

[n30r3l0ad3d]

As I stated before, I've had my rear tire kick out on me several times for no real apparent reason. Some will argue this tire is the best for the bike, but I will not be one of them. I plan on riding mine till it's time to change them out, and go with another tire brand.

 

[Lou Wambsganss]

Most modern street motorcycle tires are a dual compound. Harder rubber in the center for long life, softer rubber on the sides for increased grip during cornering. Apparently, the Metzeler Z8s are hard compound over the entire surface. They try to effectively "soften" the sides by running different tensions on the inner belting. Watch the video here. Metzeler Roadtec Z8 Interact Rear Tire - RevZilla. The Roadtech Z8 portion starts around 3:00. I wonder if the problem can be at least partially attributed to the transition from the tighter belting to looser belting? It seems like most (but not all) reviews on Revzilla are generally positive, but most are also installed on heavier bikes (R1200, K1600, etc). Maybe the tire is a little too hard for the lighter weight NC700X?

 

[dduelin]

I don't know about the weight aspect - this Z8 review utilized a heavy 1250 cc bike and a Honda CBR600 which weighs about 90 lbs less than the NCX and puts more than twice the horsepower to the rear wheel.

Metzeler Z8 wins Motorrad award - Product News - Visordown

Still, I do not discount the experience and opinion of those that don't like this tire. Real world testing in other words.

 

[searsboy]

+1 Grump,
My original Metzler Z8's have a raised area right in the center on the rear tire. I have around 7k miles on them, and have made sure to check pressure simply because I am a cheap b***ard and don't want to purchase new ones until absolutely necessary. They have seemed "bumpy" to me since new.
I emailed Metzler about it and got the "well if you ride straight roads, and improper pressure" type response. Figures.
I don't trust them in corners at all, especially when the road is wet.
I bought a set of PR3's and have them waiting for when I just can't stand the Metzlers any more.
I have also had ME880's on cruiser type bikes and had trouble with them cupping badly at low mileage.
Surely there are millions of riders who like and use Metzler tires, and maybe it is just my riding habits or something, but I won't buy any more. YMMV.
RobN

My Z8's wore like yours with the raised area in the middle. I changed them out at 8500 miles to the PR3's and WOW, what a difference!
BTW: I thought the Z8's handled well and never had the traction issue even when pushing the twisties hard, but the way the tread wore after 7k miles made me change brands.

 

[OldJeff]

Not sure if this is the case or not, but back on the Honda Shadow forum, Metzler tires were highly regarded, but supposedly it did depend on where they are manufactured. Germany or Brazil, with the Brazil factory being the one to avoid.

 

[anglachel]

I know when it comes time to get replacement tires, It won't be the metzelers. Will likely get michelins since there on all my cars. However, it will be a long time till new tires. I do get even wear out of my tires. I do lean into a turn/corner just not at super lean rate or speed. Just moderately and enjoying the ride.

I too am a big fan of Michelins on my cars... (My wife needs a set on hers, but I'm hoping her stock tires can get her through the winter this year and then I'll pony up for a new set of defenders)

On my bicycle though I've found Michelins to be lacking.
I prefer Continentals on the bicycle, I have town and countries for the summer and spike claws for the winter, and the both work wonderfully. (my summertime off road tires are nothing special, some generic brand that the bike shop had cheap)

With the motorcycle existing halfway between the car and the bicycle I'm at a loss where to go, so I'm watching tire threads intently for the next ~5-6k until I'll need to start considering tire replacement.

In the mean time, I can safely say after 2k miles my tires are worn in, and there does not appear to be much of a coating on them any more.

 

[Lou Wambsganss]

Just so this doesn't seem too one-sided, I have come to really appreciate one aspect of the Metzelers, and that is cold weather performance. When below freezing, they feel a little stiff at first, but they seem to warm up within about 0.5 miles of normal riding. I no longer have any cornering traction issues, which leads me to believe that it probably was some sort of surface issue; either a coating or just scuffing of the rubber surface. Either way, after the initial issues, I am happy with the tires. However, I'm probably still going to try the new Michelin PR4s when these wear out. I'm just curious if they are as good as people make them sound, at least based on feedback for the PR3s.

 

[Trev96]

I used to use a fine rasp file of the tread of my new tyres near the sides before riding for the first time. I didn't worry about wearing the rubber off a little as I knew my cornering wasn't that good. Then used a wire brush to clean the file.

 

[Antarius]

Am I missing something?

All new tires, all of them, have a mold release product on the tire. All tires need to be broken in to release that "film" from the tire before the tire will be able to grip at it's full capability. Even race tires, which if there was ever a tire to not need a mold release agent on a tire, that would be one, have them.

The best way? Heat, no joke. My race bike slicks even have the things and we slap them on and go race with just one warm up lap on them before going to full lean angle and dragging parts along the ground. Why? The tires are heated on tire warmers to 180F, then ridden at legitimate speeds -- focusing on ACCELERATION and DECELERATION -- as those two forces DEFORM THE TIRE more than "cornering" and generate heat. The heat bakes the release off.

Problem with that method on a street tire? You can't possibly put enough heat into a street tire because 1) it's designed to shed heat a lot faster than a race tire, as heat deteriorates a tire and thus for life a street tire will shed heat as quickly as possible and 2) you don't have the ability to go as fast without "stopping" and starting over. The instant you slow down, the tire cools, rapidly.

It is true, however, that some tires use a different release film than others and some are more adherent or true to the tire qualities when brand new -- but all of them use a release agent whether or not you can see it, and all of those release agents adversely affect the grip performance of the tire to some extent.

So, after this big long winded post -- though I'm kind of surprised it's even here to be honest -- what do you do with a street tire? Simple. Ride the bike, put a good amount of miles on it before you decide to start ripping into the corners, and when you DO decide to "scrub" the tires in, make sure you have given the tires plenty of time to generate HEAT.

An example: A 50F degree day, and a 50 mile freeway ride, my street tires will be barely warm to the touch. Somewhere around 90F. My race bike with ONE warm up lap from DEAD cold on a 2.2 mile track, the tire will be over 200 degrees on the surface of the tire.

So, go out on a nice warm day with your nice brand new tires, put a few miles on the freeway to get some heat into the tires, then get out on the backroads and start generating heat in the tires. You will scrub them in before you know it.

On a side note: I run the Metzler Z8's right now as well, and yes, they aren't the best performing tire on the market but they are predictable and any slide is completely recoverable, at least in my experience.

 

[jonnybegood]

All you have to do to see this film is real, go to a dealer that has lots of new tires on a rack and run your hand over them. Even with car tires at a dealer or at Walmart some tires are scary slippery. This is a new problem for me, motorcycle and car tires didn't use to be this slippery when new. I don't think its a release agent but maybe a coating to protect from salt water on the long boat ride over here.

 

[Antarius]

All you have to do to see this film is real, go to a dealer that has lots of new tires on a rack and run your hand over them. Even with car tires at a dealer or at Walmart some tires are scary slippery. This is a new problem for me, motorcycle and car tires didn't use to be this slippery when new. I don't think its a release agent but maybe a coating to protect from salt water on the long boat ride over here.

Yes, as I said in the long post above, it is on nearly every single new tire. Including dirt tires. It is a mold release agent to remove the tire during manufacture. It also protects the tire, but even my high end race tires (like posted in the picture above) come directly from Japan individually WRAPPED for protection, and STILL have the mold release.

It's not a big deal, just ride the bike.