Question Self cancelling indicators

[GLC]

Now that the new Honda Hornet and Transalp have been released in EU and the Transalp at least in the USA, I noted that these relatively budget bikes now come with self-cancelling indicators, which in my humble opinion should be compulsory on all bikes as a safety feature. I nearly got into trouble this week at a major intersection when my left turn indicator was inadvertently on but I was instead crossing straight over a major highway. No accident occurred thankfully, but it got me to wondering whether the self-cancelling indicators on the transalp/hornet could be retrofitted to the NC750x and in particular my dct version. Does any techno geek out there have any idea how these cancelling indicators work? My local Honda dealer, who hasn't seen a Transalp, yet says the cancelling indicators on the Goldwing go through the central computer so there is no compatibility there with the NC. He also thinks aftermarket self-cancelling indicators are mostly "Chinese junk" in his words. Anyone out there have any insights on this topic?

 

[mzflorida]

I don’t know if they can be retrofitted or not. But I do know that Honda’s self cancelling turn signals are based on an algorithm that considers speed, time, and distance traveled. So if that is resolved independently from the ECU, probably.

 

[T.S.Zarathustra]

There used to be self canceling turn signal kits available for most bikes. Not that I have looked in the last few years. Some of these were "German quality design" but "Chinese quality design" was also available. In most cases they involve modifying the turn signal switch so it returns to centre position after pressing, plus adding centre contact to cancel manually. Then replacing the turn signal relay, plus powering the new relay. After this you get (usually) time based turn signal. Prices were from about a 100 to 500 USD.
I remember seeing an Arduino self canceling turn signal project somewhere that promised speed sensoring using GPS module (so it would stay on for longer if the bike was stationary), but that's slightly higher on the difficulty scale.
Retrofitting from newer bike to older bike rarely works. These usually "talk" to the ECU and older ECU is not equipped to "understand" them.

Edit. Used Google search and found "Smart Turn System" at motorcycle accessory store Louis. Acceleration, motion detection, and Gyroscope. Price about 80 Euros (seems to be on sale).

 

[mzflorida]

Now that the new Honda Hornet and Transalp have been released in EU and the Transalp at least in the USA, I noted that these relatively budget bikes now come with self-cancelling indicators, which in my humble opinion should be compulsory on all bikes as a safety feature. I nearly got into trouble this week at a major intersection when my left turn indicator was inadvertently on but I was instead crossing straight over a major highway. No accident occurred thankfully, but it got me to wondering whether the self-cancelling indicators on the transalp/hornet could be retrofitted to the NC750x and in particular my dct version. Does any techno geek out there have any idea how these cancelling indicators work? My local Honda dealer, who hasn't seen a Transalp, yet says the cancelling indicators on the Goldwing go through the central computer so there is no compatibility there with the NC. He also thinks aftermarket self-cancelling indicators are mostly "Chinese junk" in his words. Anyone out there have any insights on this topic?

I just recalled I have an extra STS turn signal kit that is brand new. Let me know if you are interested. I bought two for different bikes and have sold one bike before installing. It will be a very fair price.

 

[mrbios]

Motorcycles are garbage. My 1992 BMW K75S had self canceling signal lights. They were perfect - they don't cancel until the bike goes over 25 or 30mph. A couple of years ago I added piezoelectric speakers / buzzers to my handlebars so I don't forget my signal lights on. Cars have had them for 70? years but for motorcycles in 2023 it is still hit or miss.

 

[Daphnebroon]

Agreed! My 1977 Yamaha RD 250DX ( great bike btw) had self cancelling indicators and my Yamaha XJ 550 1981 (Seca inStates) which I still have has them. Can’t believe 1977 and 81 bikes had them when let’s face it electronics were in their infancy yet we don’t get them now when all speed monitoring is done by electronics and not cables ,which would give manufacturers an easy trigger point to know distance travelled/speed since activation. Having ranted on modern bikes like chalk and cheese as far as performance esp tyres /brakes frame /rigidity and handling . FYI all above bikes UK/European spec so may differ from rest of world.

 

[FIRE UP]

Well,
Here's a head scratcher for ya (at least for me it was/is). I purchased a brand new 2018 Honda Africa Twin Adventure Sports DCT back in April of 2020. It was in the midst of the infamous Covid situation. That bike was an outstanding bike in many ways. I loved it. But, it too did not have self canceling turn signals! That was tough to believe on a 2018 Honda. But, here's the head scratching part. You could buy the almost exact same model, year etc. in Canada and guess what, YOU GOT SELF CANCELING TURN SIGNALS!!!!!! Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? Now, I don't know what kind of manufacturer or government games all these people play but, for the life of me, I cannot fathom a reason that bikes delivered to one country (and most likely many more) would have self canceling turn signals and yet, here in the U.S., they didn't get them.

But, in 2020, Honda decided to create a "new and updated" model and gave the 2020 Africa Twin Adventure Sports (DCT or manual) version, self cancelling turn signals!!! And yes, I had both a 1976 and a 1977 Yamaha RD400 and BOTH of them had self cancelling turn signals!!!!!!!
Scott

 

[Lee_0123]

Do the EU and Canadian versions of the NC750X have self canceling turn signals? I don't believe they do.
The Can Am has them and the more I ride the Can Am the more I wish I had them on the Honda. Cruise control too.

 

[670cc]

Well,
Here's a head scratcher for ya (at least for me it was/is). I purchased a brand new 2018 Honda Africa Twin Adventure Sports DCT back in April of 2020. It was in the midst of the infamous Covid situation. That bike was an outstanding bike in many ways. I loved it. But, it too did not have self canceling turn signals! That was tough to believe on a 2018 Honda. But, here's the head scratching part. You could buy the almost exact same model, year etc. in Canada and guess what, YOU GOT SELF CANCELING TURN SIGNALS!!!!!! Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? Now, I don't know what kind of manufacturer or government games all these people play but, for the life of me, I cannot fathom a reason that bikes delivered to one country (and most likely many more) would have self canceling turn signals and yet, here in the U.S., they didn't get them.

But, in 2020, Honda decided to create a "new and updated" model and gave the 2020 Africa Twin Adventure Sports (DCT or manual) version, self cancelling turn signals!!! And yes, I had both a 1976 and a 1977 Yamaha RD400 and BOTH of them had self cancelling turn signals!!!!!!!
Scott

I don’t think there are manufacturer or government games at play here regarding signals. Honda’s goal for 2018 was to profitably sell the Africa Twin. You bought one. Honda didn’t have to install the self canceling signals to make the sale. So why should they put them on it then? Jumping ahead to 2020 models, they probably sat around the conference room table at Honda and decided self cancelling signals might be a cost effective feature that could increase sales in the USA, so they were added.

Country markets dictate the features and pricing. It’s my observation that USA buyers are cheap. Customers don’t want to spend much for a motorcycle, so when they can, manufacturers keep prices down by limiting features.

Perhaps not for the self cancelling option, but be aware that lighting features sometimes vary by country due to the vehicle legal requirements for that country, hence model variations.

Diverting from the topic, and strictly my opinion: A more important feature, by comparison, is ABS. Manufacturers or their importers are still allowed to sell motorcycles in the USA without ABS. I would petition for mandatory ABS long before I’d worry about self cancelling signals.

 

[FIRE UP]

Well I can see some of your logic Greg but, I might not agree with all of it. If a company that's as large as Honda, has bikes on the assembly line and those assembly lines move at a somewhat rapid pace, and those sections where wiring (at least some of the wiring) are installed, again at a fairly rapid pace, the cost of whatever components that are needed for self canceling turn signals which can't be very much at all, in both the parts and the time to install them, would be insignificant since the pace that those bikes are rolling off the line, fully complete is quite fast. Snap-click, snap-click and a harness and whatever else is installed. And while you may not apply much value to them, I consider the self canceling as more of a safety factor, kind-a like you do with the ABS. No, self canceling t/s is not as important in the safe operation of a motorcycle but, when you consider that so many m/c's don't have them and sooooo many riders forget their on, and following drivers don't have a clue as to the intentions of those riders.

Yes, I did buy an '18. It was two years old and sales of ALL MOTORCYCLES had fallen drastically all over the U.S. when I did purchase it in 2020. It was at a pretty fair price based on what a brand new '20 was advertised as. If there might have been a slight increase in price simply because Honda installed them FOR THE U.S., I'd have still bought it and so would many other riders. As far as U.S. m/c riders being somewhat "cheap", well, maybe. But that can also be said for any m/c rider all over the world. I don't know a lot of folks that LIKE to pay what we pay for motorcycles but, if you enjoy the sport, you pay, period. And that includes most all countries. Sure, there might be slight differences in prices for the same exact (if there is such a thing as a same exact model for various countries) model from country to country. And that can be caused by or contributed to a thousand reasons, not just the income of potential buyers.

I'm sure that there are plenty of riders out there that could care less about self canceling turn signals. Partially because, just like many zillions of cagers out there, they DON'T USE THEM ANYWAYS! But, I for one, don't like looking like a fool because I left my turn signal on for umpteen million miles (slight exaggeration there) because I was and or am paying more attention to traffic conditions etc.

It is what it is. There are remedies for this situation. ST2 systems for example.
Scott

 

[750dct]

I would gladly pay a little more for S-C signals. Like fire up said; it causes more people not to use them which makes them a danger. I rarely use mine because they are fidgety to start with. Not a good idea from Honda........

 

[dduelin]

If riders used turn signals every turn and turned them off every turn they would train their brain to use them every turn and then turn them off every time. It’s like everything else we learn to do subconsciously. These arguments that suggest turn signals are unsafe to use because they forget to turn them off are amusing. Learning to turn them off follows learning to use them without conscious thought. Automobiles in the US are required to have self canceling turn signals and they are frequently not used so there goes that line of reasoning.

 

[670cc]

I would gladly pay a little more for S-C signals. Like fire up said; it causes more people not to use them which makes them a danger. I rarely use mine because they are fidgety to start with. Not a good idea from Honda........

Fidgety turn signals? I’m not sure what that means, but the signals on the NC seem pretty standard to me.

 

[the Ferret]

If riders used turn signals every turn and turned them off every turn they would train their brain to use them every turn and then turn them off every time. It’s like everything else we learn to do subconsciously. These arguments that suggest turn signals are unsafe to use because they forget to turn them off are amusing. Learning to turn them off follows learning to use them without conscious thought. Automobiles in the US are required to have self canceling turn signals and they are frequently not used so there goes that line of reasoning.

I've taught myself to punch the ts button on every turn, whether I have used them or not. It's just habit now. Go thru a turn, pull out of a parking lot, whatever, punch the cancel button.

 

[670cc]

I've taught myself to punch the ts button on every turn, whether I have used them or not. It's just habit now. Go thru a turn, pull out of a parking lot, whatever, punch the cancel button.

Great advice, but it reminds me of an opposite habit I developed for awhile. On my 2002 Goldwing, with self cancelling turn signals, the signals would very often cancel themselves before I could make the turn. This was potentially a major safety issue. So I developed a habit of continously flipping the turn signal switch for the direction I was going to keep reactivating the signals, to keep them active until the turn was complete.

Because of experience with the Goldwing‘s flaky design, I have no interest in my bikes having self cancelling signals. I have since done an electrical modification to the Goldwing so that each time the brake(s) are activated, it resets the countdown timer on the signal cancel. Much better now.

I will say the Can-Am Ryker has a flawless self cancelling system, but it is probably easy to design for a machine that you turn right to go right, and you must turn the bars to turn the machine.

 

[the Ferret]

You'd think with all of Hondas brilliant tech/engineers, they could figure out how to do self canceling t/s correctly.

 

[750dct]

Fidgety turn signals? I’m not sure what that means, but the signals on the NC seem pretty standard to me.

It just seems they could be a little easier to use with gloved hands. Of my 10 bikes only a few even had turn signals.