Rear brakes weak

[mike5100]

I have passed the link to this thread to my Honda dealer who still has my old NC700X to sell on. At the very least it may help explain to him why his next customer complains he has no brakes after the first pad change, but ideally if he finds there is a problem he can get a new calliper from Honda as the bike is under warranty until September
Mike

 

[glencoeman]

I have just taken off the rear brake pads etc to grease pins and copper slip the back of the pads. On reassembly, I cannot get the rear wheel to spin easily as the brake appears to be sticking on. If you look at it from the rear, it looks like the piston is quite a bit out of square to the disc. I think that the caliper has been machined incorrectly. Will try to pinpoint the actual area of the problem tomorrow.
Bike is NC700S with 2600 miles - still under warranty till December.

 

[Deleted member 1183]

I just checked mine this minute. A cursory inspection suggests that the caliper is ok . That ties in with satisfactory braking on my bike. It is clear that there are variations in machining tolerances on other bikes however, and that clearly explains the poor braking experienced, given that the pads will be making poor contact with the disc for a significant part of their working life. TBH, this is a safety issue and should be the subject of a recall on all bikes to have their calipers examined and if necessary, replaced.

 

[glencoeman]

Just an update. The problem is that mounting pin has not been machined square to the caliper as can be seen in one of the photographs. Been to the dealer who agreed the problem. They phoned Honda UK warranty department and they had no knowledge of any other complaints or recall notices. The dealer has put in a claim and I will hear middle of next week what the situation is - the warranty expires in December 2014.

 

[mike5100]

I just checked mine this minute. A cursory inspection suggests that the caliper is ok . That ties in with satisfactory braking on my bike. It is clear that there are variations in machining tolerances on other bikes however, and that clearly explains the poor braking experienced, given that the pads will be making poor contact with the disc for a significant part of their working life. TBH, this is a safety issue and should be the subject of a recall on all bikes to have their calipers examined and if necessary, replaced.

Yes - I think I agree. My back brake was non-existent when I got the 700X from new. As it happens it wasn't really a safety issue for me, as on my previous (non-ABS) bikes I had schooled myself to use the front brake only, but for those who ride 'harder' it could be a safety issue if they aren't getting any back braking. It's possible that Honda have not realised what the problem is until identified in this thread (good spot that man), but it seems unlikely, so a bit disappointing that they haven't done a recall.
Mike

 

[glencoeman]

It is a safety issue if it fails the MOT because the rear brake is ineffective.

 

[mike5100]

I called in to Honda Newcastle this afternoon and took a look at 3 NC700X they had for sale second hand. None of the 3 exhibited a noticeable skewing of the rear caliper. So I guess it's only some of the bikes that might be affected.
Mike

 

[Alfred_bham]

So what was/is the result of your effort??

My rear brakes are pretty bad & before I start a "Brake Project" I'd be curious as to what you've found!!

Well, the bracket or brake stay is basically perfect. It appears the threaded hole in the caliper for the main pin was misdrilled during manufacturing. First I'm going to run this by my local dealer and see what he says. If that doesn't look promising I'll take the caliper off and re-drill and heilcoil the hole. I bet a new caliper won't cost too much but who's to say I'll get a good one.

 

[glencoeman]

I am still waiting for the spare parts to arrive. Apparently they are out of stock in the whole of Europe and have to wait for delivery from Japan. Estimated arrival time in Europe is 18th April. Mojave thought that the caliper would not cost much - however, in England, it is only available as part of a full kit which includes everything including the mounting bracket. The retail cost is approx. $650.

 

[ronsaw]

Just had the first ride yesterday, I would agree, feels weak - but need to keep riding. Works, but feels like about 20% of stopping power is about it.

 

[Mojave]

Well, some time and miles have gone by. So far I've not had the time or stomach to take mine in. My local dealer, Greg, I've known and basically liked for 23 years. But I have never bought a bike from him because he - does - NOT - deal. It makes for awkward conversations, and I'm sure this will be one of them.

I've put about 1,500 miles so since I last posted on this thread and the brakes are no better. My pin is so skewed I just don't think the piston can apply much force.

- $650!

For $50 and a couple hours work I can fixed it myself. The interesting part is figuring out which side of the caliper the hole is closest to the right position... I can set up off the brake stay holes.

 

[itlives]

I'm here because I did a search on "back brakes". I have put about 1,000 miles since I got my NC. I think the back brakes are very weak. I took a look at them (not with a square) and they look fine.
Admittedly, I don't know much about motorcycle brakes. If they are not supposed to lock up, I guess they're fine. There doesn't seem to be any binding, but I think they should work better than they do.

Thanks for a good dissection of this "problem" Mojave!

 

[Old Can Ride]

You could go to high performance motorcycle brake pads. Brake friction grade levels are from:

FF Range (what is on the NC7)
GG Range
HH Range

Double HH grade pads are the highest friction brakes you can buy for any motorcycle, and will deliver excellent stopping power in all conditions. You CAN upgrade FF and GG pads with HH pads but EXERCISE CAUTION until you become acquainted with increased brake effect. Also, HH range will wear your rotors out faster.

 

[John Boy]

Canadian, so manual transmission, abs, linked brakes. Can def feel the linked braking effect, but after years of riding really use my front to stop primarily. Have'nt tried locking up the rear, but just yesterday had used the back brakes "more than usuall" and noted that they stopped the bike alot better than I expected. Surprised Honda would blow it on such a major component, they usually are right on the ball.

 

[itlives]

Thanks OCR for that info.
After this conversation I started pushing harder on the brake lever. They actually work pretty good. I don't remember having to push so hard on the lever on my old motorcycles, though.

 

[Deleted member 1183]

I think the brakes are ok except for those with the pins/calipers out of line, obviously. I do not like a back brake to lock up too easily and on my NC I don't notice the back brake. That for me, means that it is working properly.

 

[Blackrider]

Since new I have locked my brakes up quite a few times on dry roads.
It should be very easy to do.

Once I was following a friend and the light turned yellow. I thought he was going
to go through but he stopped. I was going pretty fast and had to apply both breaks
to be able to stop quickly. I did not slide but I did manage to stop it beside my friend.

 

[bigjeff]

step on it harder? If I step down hard it will lock up the rear brake. Works fine for me, especially for trail braking into a corner.

 

[SergeantChuck]

I've locked mine up but I probably pushed it to the ground. I had a little incentive to brake that hard though. Not hit the car that pulled out in front of me.