OHLINS now available

[Beemerphile]

Have you got it yet?

Nope. They told me one week to the states and two weks for springs and valving customization. So I figure it is about a week out, as is the front suspension.

Nice.
Does it make sense to just change the rear shock and not the front ones?

It will provide some improvement, but the two should be coordinated to work well together. In my own opinion, the front was worse than the rear and if I were only going to do one, I would have done the front. Neither suspension is "adjustable" other than rear pre-load, so making any improvements will require dismantling and tinkering. The front is easier to tinker with. One can change oil weight and adjust compression and rebound damping by altering the size of the ports in the damper rods. From my imperfect knowledge of suspensions, it needs less compression damping, more rebound damping and more progressive spring rates. The ability to adjust damping or to provide different low and high speed response would require more sophisticated valving. A tinkerer could put in heavier fork oil to increase the rebound damping and drill out the compression ports to decrease compression damping. Then, though the springs could not be made more progressive, one could adjust the sag by spacer adjustments as necessary.

 

[JDE]

Same here.

Yeah, I can just about replace the entire suspenssion on my car for the price of that one shock absorber.

 

[turbodieseli4i6]

I think it will be worth it in the end though. I will have to wait a while for the suspension. Other priorities ya know!
After talking to beemerphile the other day, I think I will the V35 Givi now. But that will be a while also.

 

[Beemerphile]

Yeah, I can just about replace the entire suspenssion on my car for the price of that one shock absorber.

Well, it is high, but that is about entry level for a top drawer rear shock like the Ohlins or a Wilbers. If you add higher level features like remote reservoirs and hydraulic pre-load the price can eclipse the magic $1,000 mark. As far as the comparison to car parts, there is not much difference between comparing the cost of an Ohlins to a Monro-matic car shock than there is in comparing an Akropovik to a Midas car muffler. Between the two, I would rather spend the $650 on the suspension. I don't know why the economics are what they are, but I suspect smaller markets which imply less economy of scale and the more technical level of design and construction of the motorcycle part vs. the car part. Certainly neither change is for everyone.

Regarding what can be done with the suspension we have, well there are some things that can be done that may provide a major improvement. The first is to use the only adjustment we have (rear pre-load) to make the rear as responsive as it can be. That involves setting the pre-load so that the rear suspension "sags" to about 25-30% of its travel with just the weight of the bike, rider, and gear. This alone can make a big difference. Setting the front sag is not as straight-forward as the rear, but it is still not technically challenging. Those customizations you can get for free. Trying a different oil weight is almost free. The problem you may hit there is if the compression and rebound damping need to go in different directions, as I believe that they do. Then anything that makes one better will make the other worse unless you change the port sizes. If you want to go beyond that to get different high and low speed tunable response, then you will have to change hard parts like the valves and springs.

 

[JDE]

Well, it is high, but that is about entry level for a top drawer rear shock like the Ohlins or a Wilbers. If you add higher level features like remote reservoirs and hydraulic pre-load the price can eclipse the magic $1,000 mark. As far as the comparison to car parts, there is not much difference between comparing the cost of an Ohlins to a Monro-matic car shock than there is in comparing an Akropovik to a Midas car muffler. Between the two, I would rather spend the $650 on the suspension. I don't know why the economics are what they are, but I suspect smaller markets which imply less economy of scale and the more technical level of design and construction of the motorcycle part vs. the car part. Certainly neither change is for everyone.

Regarding what can be done with the suspension we have, well there are some things that can be done that may provide a major improvement. The first is to use the only adjustment we have (rear pre-load) to make the rear as responsive as it can be. That involves setting the pre-load so that the rear suspension "sags" to about 25-30% of its travel with just the weight of the bike, rider, and gear. This alone can make a big difference. Setting the front sag is not as straight-forward as the rear, but it is still not technically challenging. Those customizations you can get for free. Trying a different oil weight is almost free. The problem you may hit there is if the compression and rebound damping need to go in different directions, as I believe that they do. Then anything that makes one better will make the other worse unless you change the port sizes. If you want to go beyond that to get different high and low speed tunable response, then you will have to change hard parts like the valves and springs.

I hear ya. To each their own and obviously there is a market for this. Hell I'd like to get them and do something with the front forks to make the suspenssion work better. It's just out of my budget.

 

[duk2n]

FYI, it has been some time since Wilbers and Promoto has in eBay progresive springs for the front:

457901 WILBERS Gabelfedern HONDA 700 X RC 63 12- | eBay

457715 PROMOTO Gabelfedern HONDA 700 X RC 63 12- | eBay

HTH

 

[Beemerphile]

FYI, it has been some time since Wilbers and Promoto has in eBay progresive springs for the front:

457901 WILBERS Gabelfedern HONDA 700 X RC 63 12- | eBay

457715 PROMOTO Gabelfedern HONDA 700 X RC 63 12- | eBay

HTH

Wilbers is top drawer. I have no experience with Promoto. Progressive springs are a step in the right direction if the spring rates are right. I do not know off-hand what weight oil Honda provides OEM, but it is probably the same SAE 5 fish oil that they have always used. If that is so, the 7.5W and especially the 10W oil will provide more low speed damping and much more high speed damping than it currently has. This may only be 2/3 of a solution. If I were going to do this, I would count on having to spend some up-close personal time with the damper rod assemblies before being satisfied with the result.

 

[duk2n]

Well, all I can say is that I fitted Wilbers progressive springs in my old Yamaha XT350 and they made a significant improvement, and the guy who is in charge of the dealership here at Spain was _very_ responsible.

Other colleagues from my Trail group mount Promoto on their bikes and are happy too.

HTH

 

[Beemerphile]

Well, all I can say is that I fitted Wilbers progressive springs in my old Yamaha XT350 and they made a significant improvement, and the guy who is in charge of the dealership here at Spain was _very_ responsible.

Other colleagues from my Trail group mount Promoto on their bikes and are happy too.

HTH

I agree that progressives are an improvement if the spring rates are properly spec'ed. The spec-ing is everything. It can be done properly or poorly and two very different results will be realized - both with, let's say, Wilbers progressive springs. The effect of heavier oil could also go either way depending on which side of optimal the damping was originally. If the spring rates and oil were both heavier, the ride will be harsher. Of utmost importance is to tailor the suspension to the weight and use of the vehicle. A bike which is going to be jumped has a different set of design criteria than a mostly road bike that you wish to make a bit more comfortable on bad roads. Someone who is going to jump a dirt bike wants springs progressive enough not to bottom out on the jumps. When I was racing motocross (around 1970) we knew better than to make front wheel landings because the bikes would fold up. Now front landings are routinely (and intentionally) done. However, on the NC, I would want progressive springs so that the bottom inch or two of travel could be lighter for better plushness on bad roads, and the progressive end of the spring would make sure that I don't bottom too easily on big bumps or holes.

The skill and knowledge of the tuner is important. That is why, not being expert, that I decided to use a shop for the front forks. Once they spec what is there, and use the input I gave them on load and intended use, I will rely on their expertise to determine optimum spring rates, oil weights, and damping characteristics. If I were going to undertake to improve my own front suspension, I would spend a lot of time first trying to better understand what is there before changing it. If I don't know what the current spring rate is, I can't even know whether the Wilbers will be higher or lower than what I already have.

 

[happy]

I am totally awed by these technical jargon here.
Also I have never ridden a "properly setup Ohlins, progressive forks" kind of bike.
I am sure there is a big difference in tracking over the bumps and what have you.

Question is:
How does one give specs to the tuner / fork company and
how does one adjust the rear fully-adjustable rearshocks?

I mean, I know what is preload, rebound and damping, but that is all I know.

Any hints (education time)?

Can the answer be "as simple as possible" for a dummy layman I am?
Thanks.

 

[Beemerphile]

Question is:
How does one give specs to the tuner / fork company and
how does one adjust the rear fully-adjustable rearshocks?

I mean, I know what is preload, rebound and damping, but that is all I know.

Any hints (education time)?

Can the answer be "as simple as possible" for a dummy layman I am?
Thanks.

To give the specs to a tuner, either the factory needs to provide the information in manuals or some pioneer has to take one apart and spec it. How adjustable a rear shock is goes from pre-load only (ours) to those with separate high and low speed compression and rebound damping. More knobs and clickers than most folks can intelligently twist. Middle ground is pre-load plus separate compression and rebound damping.

The goal is to use as little of everything s possible - the lowest spring rates, the lowest rebound damping, and the lowest compression damping. I would start with both rebound and compression damping set as low as possible while I determine the correct pre-load of the rear suspension. To do that, I would find the gnarliest bump that I want to be able to traverse at a particular speed and run over it while varying the rear pre-load until the shock barely bottomed. Then I would run up the pre-load a little bit. Next I would try to match the front travel to the rear travel by putting zip ties on the shock rod and forks and riding my test loop. I'd want to adjust the front travel to match the rear that I determined by my bottoming test. Once I have the springs where I wanted them, I would start with compression damping. Too much (front or rear) equals a harsh suspension, so I would approach it from below. Too little compression damping on the rear will cause the bike to squat under hard acceleration. Too little front compression will cause a fast dive under hard front braking. Again, as little as possible click by click until you are satisfied.

Where on compression, it is easiest to tell when you have too little, on rebound, it is easiest to tell when you have too much. The thing we are trying to accomplish is that the wheel follows the road. If the rear rebound damping is too high, the rear wheel will bounce over bumps, especially in rapid succession. The front with too much rebound damping will "stay down" and either try to tuck in on a turn or run wide coming out. So, back out until these things don't happen any more.

 

[happy]

Darn...I guess I just have to ride another 20 years to "get it"...


An Ohlins is probably "wasted" on me...

 

[Beemerphile]

Until then, just adjust your pre-load for 30-40mm of sag with you on it and ride on happily. That is very close to the best that you can do without spending money or developing a deep understanding of it.

 

[gkgeiger]

I will consider changing the shock but only if if has a remote spring preload adjustment. That's my only real complaint with the NC.

 

[Beemerphile]

I will consider changing the shock but only if if has a remote spring preload adjustment. That's my only real complaint with the NC.

I got the "basic" model that does not have remote pre-load adjustment, but it was available as an option. I have found that I can usually find one place where it works as I don't carry passengers and my normal touring load is under 15 kg. If I were to use the bike in "expedition mode" where extra fuel, tools, tires, etc. might be carried, I would have to crawl under it and bump up the spring. I have not decided whether I am going to use the NC in this mode or not. I am considering a ride up the Canadian maritime provinces and across Labrador next year. I have fallen deeply in love with the Canadian countryside. If I can work out the long distance comfort issues to my satisfaction with the NC, I may take it instead of the BMW.

After that, who knows. Maybe Route de la Baie-James or the Trans-Taiga.

 

[gkgeiger]

I got the "basic" model that does not have remote pre-load adjustment, but it was available as an option. I have found that I can usually find one place where it works as I don't carry passengers and my normal touring load is under 15 kg. If I were to use the bike in "expedition mode" where extra fuel, tools, tires, etc. might be carried, I would have to crawl under it and bump up the spring. I have not decided whether I am going to use the NC in this mode or not. I am considering a ride up the Canadian maritime provinces and across Labrador next year. I have fallen deeply in love with the Canadian countryside. If I can work out the long distance comfort issues to my satisfaction with the NC, I may take it instead of the BMW.

After that, who knows. Maybe Route de la Baie-James or the Trans-Taiga.

My problem is that I ride 50/50 solo and two up, so I need to be able to bump the preload. Although I must admit my wife isn't crazy about this machine. I will have to do something about the seat and windscreen for sure. I need to make her happy.

 

[Porko]

I ride back roads and gravel a bunch. Suspension works o.k. for me and am sure is good for 95% of owners. Loose deep gravel needs a little more rider attention but it handles it. Do a lot of loaded riding with a pile of gear and only bottomed rear suspension on the deepest potholes so i have not even bumped up my preload. Suspension work is the last thing I may do. ABS brakes are the nuts on gravel roads I ran a little test at 30-50 mph. with panic stops on gravel, stops fast with only rear brake, a slight bit better using front as well, when you mash the rear brake only both wheels are almost skidding but do not break free, stops fast, no problem with my brakes. 7000 miles plus since purchased Aug. 15. great little bike for the price. Ride safe.

 

[happy]

I am a small-built man compared to you guys, so I guess I will hardly bottom out the rear shocks unless I jump off a piste or something....will post pics when I do that.

 

[Loomis]

I added hydraulic preload to my rear race tech shock, as it's a must for the mix of riding I'm doing. I'll post a review when I get it back. Forks were done last week, and they were dailing in the rear shock. I expect it to be done this week.

 

[happy]

This photo reminds of my Army days where my APC will roll along these iron-roads....
Nice!