NGK spark plug

[MZ5]

FWIW
I personally would use the old used NGK plugs before I used Champion plugs in a HONDA. Champion plugs have a poor reputation in almost all Honda products from lawn mowers to autos and motorcycle. Some of the concerns are misfires, fouling and thread galling or sticking in the head.

Although I try very hard to use NGK spark plugs in Japanese engines, the only plugs I've ever actually had pull threads out of cylinder heads have been NGKs. YMMV.

I wouldn't have the slightest hesitation using Champions, but I acknowledge that I _might_ find slight benefits in some way from sticking with NGKs.

 

[670cc]

I can't say how they would work in the NC700X, but putting Champions in a "classic" ('88-'07) Ninja 250 almost always resulted in real engine damage. On the forum, someone would describe their problem symptoms, and they would be asked "did you put Champions in it?" "Yep", they'd say.

That's enough to make me shy away.

 

[silverhound]

Dad just put some Bosch +4 plugs in his VTX1800, too!

That's a great plug for that bike plus no gapping required (or possible). I tried to get them for my FJR but Bosch doesn't make them for that model. In fact NGK was the only game in town for the FJR that I could find locally.

 

[Lou Wambsganss]

If we're all dog piling on Champion, I'll throw an elbow in, too. I spent about 7 years as a mechanic on construction equipment. Everything from hand tools to bulldozers. We used to stock mostly Champion plugs, since they were cheapest to buy. We used them in Briggs, Honda, and Kohler small singles and twins. I got really tired of replacing plugs all the time. I never had a Champion plug itself fail, but the engines were harder to start, easier to foul, and generally rougher idling. I started buying equivalent Autolites and had significantly reduced issues.

The only things that liked Champion plugs were the forced air heaters (Salamander style kerosene and propane heaters). The plugs on those, though, were not a conventional plug. They ran constantly as an igniter and had a 1" long protruding electrode. Basically no chance of fouling. Plus, they were the only manufacturer, so we were stick with Champions whether we liked it or not.



My experience comes from a fleet of hundreds of engines, which I was one of two mechanics responsible for all maintenance and repairs, so I had a good idea about all of the variables. I won't ever spend any money on a Champion plug. Even if I got free Champion plugs for life in a contest or something, I probably wouldn't use them. I'd sell them to people with late model Cavaliers. I hate those cars.

 

[MZ5]

I think I'll look for some plain copper Champions for my NCX, just by way of ribbing everyone on the board here.

Interesting about the autolite experience. They're the only plugs I've ever had the physically broke, internally and invisibly but such that the spark quit entirely, on multiple occasions in a particular Japanese engine. They're the ones I won't buy. OTOH, I hear they're the magic goodness for Fords (or was it Chevys? I no longer recall).

 

[MZ5]

I called Champion at 888-800-9629 and they really could not answer my technical questions...

FWIW, that number does not appear to go to Champion. Rather, it appears to me to go to sparkplugs.com, a vendor of many brands. Glad you got ahold of Federal-Mogul, and got good support!

 

[670cc]

Spark plug thread joins oil thread, torque vs horsepower thread, insurance thread, etc.

 

[marotajo]

I honestly thought I wouldn't have to worry about replacing plugs until I hit 100K miles.

I guess OCR might be close to that now considering all of his exploits.

 

[ray]

According to NGK IFR6G11K - Alternative spark plugs

The specified NGK plugs cross to the following numbers:

Denso SK20PR-L11
Denso 3443
Honda 12290-RSH-003
Honda 98079-5617V
Honda 12290-RSH-0030

Can use Denso Iridium Power IK20. Is a cross to SK20PR-L11 and same specs as IFR6G-11K.

 

[showkey]

I think I'll look for some plain copper Champions for my NCX, just by way of ribbing everyone on the board here.
.

I will be glad to call you a tow truck for you...........

 

[MZ5]

This is interesting. I talked with Federal-Mogul as well, and was told they have no info on the NGK plug from which to give a correct Champion number.

OCR, did they cross reference for you just based on physical dimensions, or how?

Assuming the Champion number OCR has is good for our bikes, the plain copper version of that plug is RC8YC4, part #345. ...in case there are other cheapskates out there like me.

 

[L.B.S.]

So bottom line, what is the reason these unobtanium plugs are specc'd and used in the first place? Is it simply longer wear and mileage between needing replacement, or a particular technical requirement, that makes them so superior and spendy?

I wouldn't want to possibly degrade the NCX performance over the sake of a few bucks, over the course of 32,000 miles, myself. And I'm thinking that during that time, more than a few sets of the cheaper copper ones would be needing swapping out, so I wonder the time/labour/cost between uber fancy shmancy plugs VS multiple regular style.

Honest questions. Among many other things, I am a Spark plug tard, lol.

 

[MZ5]

These plugs are almost-certainly contract-manufactured for Honda by NGK, and _may_ not be available anywhere else but from Honda sourcing. That's a fairly common practice in the industry (plug manufacturers making contract plugs for other companies).

I'm getting a pair of the Champion coppers from Napa on Monday. I'll install and compare mpg.

 

[showkey]

So bottom line, what is the reason these unobtanium plugs are specc'd and used in the first place? Is it simply longer wear and mileage between needing replacement, or a particular technical requirement, that makes them so superior and spendy?

I wouldn't want to possibly degrade the NCX performance over the sake of a few bucks, over the course of 32,000 miles, myself. And I'm thinking that during that time, more than a few sets of the cheaper copper ones would be needing swapping out, so I wonder the time/labour/cost between uber fancy shmancy plugs VS multiple regular style.

Honest questions. Among many other things, I am a Spark plug tard, lol.

Considering a similar plug in my Honda truck is replaced at 105,000 miles...........my NC plug needs are year and years away........that my plan anyway.

Honda has done special things with plugs for many years........first Insight the plugs were indexed from the factory so the electrode would face in the proper direction when installed. Service plugs were marketed with letter codes A, B C, D to match the factory plugs to allow indexing in the field.
Biggest concern with equivalent brand would be center electrode tip (construction and rare metals) projection length into the cylinder and heat range which can relate back to the length and tip but maybe not ...........given Honda and NGK make things special for a reason and it is not just to make the parts hard to get.

 

[L.B.S.]

Honda has done special things with plugs for many years........first Insight the plugs were indexed from the factory so the electrode would face in the proper direction when installed. Service plugs were marketed with letter codes A, B C, D to match the factory plugs to allow indexing in the field.

That makes me remember reading in one of my motorcycle magazines way back in the '80's, the journos doing an article on plug electrode indexing for potentially more optimal combustion chamber burning just this way, using varying thicknesses of sealing washers.

 

[showkey]

That makes me remember reading in one of my motorcycle magazines way back in the '80's, the journos doing an article on plug electrode indexing for potentially more optimal combustion chamber burning just this way, using varying thicknesses of sealing washers.

The Insight was all about max MPG so someone figured out indexing made some difference and went through a whole lot of extra cost for some measurable gain how ever small.......

Our CX Turbos were one of the first with exotic plugs materials that were hard to get and were $$$$$$$$ back in the day .......and are still hard to get the exact plug because of changes and improvements. That engine was another one that needed Precious metal tip plug to run good and last under the turbo stress.

 

[MZ5]

...........given Honda and NGK make things special for a reason and it is not just to make the parts hard to get.

Maybe, but in light of the NCX being a value (aka relatively low-price) motorcycle, the simultaneously simplest and most-likely explanation is that it's better for the post-sale (and dealer) revenue stream.

This would be very, VERY much like every asian auto manufacturer having a 'proprietary' automatic transmission fluid that they will not license the manufacture of to anyone else. Those fluids are all _remarkably_ similar in key respects, and are easily 'covered' by universal fluids. There's even a nifty SAE paper on the topic.

So, I don't know for sure, but I know how to follow the money, and it doesn't lead to 'special.'

 

[Old Can Ride]

The Champion plugs got here this morning and I put them in Nana Chou. Drove her about 60 miles and so far so good.

The bottom of the NGK plugs are white. Does anyone here know what this means, and what adjustment do I need to do to Nana Chou?

 

[Fuzzy]

OCR your picture makes it look like the Champion will fit a bit further into cylinder and this be more subject to over heating?


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[Old Can Ride]

OCR your picture makes it look like the Champion will fit a bit further into cylinder and this be more subject to over heating?
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The NGK is special manufactured for Honda. What matters of the heat range of the plug spark! As you well know as a engineer, different electrode gauge, width, and length determine the heat range. Both are suppose to be the same heat range.