NC700XA (ABS) front brake pads

[duk2n]

Since I changed the front pads I have discovered an interesing issue that I want to share with you.

Let me remember you my NC700X is the European ABS model. The front brake pads are the same than your DCT model (three calipers), but different to your "plain" NC700X that has only two calipers.

In the image you can see:

-At the top, OEM pads almost finished, after 10,000 miles. After some investigation, I found they are Nissin TOYOS20AHH (Sintered, HH). Almost imposible to get them if not at the Honda dealer and very very expensive, at least here at Spain. The pad at the top left has the tipical metal plate to distribute hot and avoid noise when braking at low speed, approaching a trafic light for example. Interesting, this pad -the internal one- has the plate, but the external one has no plate fitted.

-At the middle, new EBC FA388HH pads.

-At the bottom, GALFER FD344G1380 (Sintered) pads, used, 1,500 miles on it.

You can see the OEM pads have 4 blocks of braking material, the EBC has 2 blocks and the GALFER presents only a block with all the braking material continous.
Nor the GALFER nor the EBC pads come with any metal plate.

Well, the issue is as follows:

I installed the GALFER pads about a month ago. Since the begining they have a rattle that I think it is related to the disk rotor shape not being completely circular but having what here at Spain we say literally "flowered shape". I'm sorry, I don't know how do you name it but I hope you will understand me. The rattle has nothing to do with the tipical scrape you can get at the final braking meters specially when the pads are new. It is a rattle in some way similar to a fan when the bearing is faulty. And it sounds as soon as you brake at speed above 20 mph, the more speed the more noise you get.

At the first I guess the rattle was caused by the absence of the metal plate, but it was impossible to fit the OEM pad plate to the GALFER pad because -I think- the GALFER pad was not designed to have it and was way thick than the OEM one. So once I had some miles on the GALFER pads I guess the metal plate could fit and I did te test. So I installed the OEM metal plate in the internal GALFER pad and go for a little ride to test it. No way, the same rattle.

So I bought the EBC pads thinking that the groove they have in the middle of the pad would help... Tried this morning with and without the OEM metal plate. No so high than the GALFER, but the rattle is still there.

Tired of this rattle I fitted the OEM pads again just to be sure the noise is related to the pads and, bingo, the noise is gone.

So, please American guys, if you have changed your front pads and don't have this irritating rattle, please let me know what brand and model are you using. Remember, we are speaking about the ABS NCX model.

And for those of you still with the OEM pads, I hope this post will help you to select the right pads.

 

[duk2n]

Nobody is going to comment? I hope I was able to explain the issue, despite my horrible english...

 

[dduelin]

My experience has been Honda OEM pads provide a good balance of performance and wear of both pads and discs. I see no reason to change pads or philosophies at 17,xxx miles. I examined them a couple weeks ago when I changed fork oil and they had many miles left in them.

 

[670cc]

Can't speak for rattles, but on my Goldwing I installed EBC HH pads when the originals were worn. I think they are too grabby at light, slow speed application. Based on that, I plan to use Honda OEM pads on both the 'Wing and the NC700 in the future because they have better feel.

Greg

 

[Chris]

Nobody is going to comment? I hope I was able to explain the issue, despite my horrible english...

Your explanation and your English are both fine. >You're just showing up a practical result of the difference between OE parts and aftermarket alternatives. The OEM will have spent years working with the brake and friction material manufacturers to get good performance, low noise and judder and will have run bench tests and road tests for thousands of miles.

The aftermarket guys will then have bought a few sets of pads from the OEM as samples. They'll have measured them, changed a few features of the plate and friction material outlines to avoid falling into too much of a direct copyright infringement then they'll have chosen the friction material on the basis of the bike's weight and performance characteristics (based on the "we used material X on the XYZ and that's not too much different" type of selection) - very unlikely that they ever made any test of any sort on the actual bike.

Some will get it right first time, some will respond to customer complaints and improve over time but most won't get enough feedback to mean anything unless they are miles off with the first attempt.

 

[Phil X]

EBC HH type put in stock. Will install soon at my NC700X DCT ABS. Will comment soonest possible.
Phil

 

[duk2n]

My experience has been Honda OEM pads provide a good balance of performance and wear of both pads and discs. I see no reason to change pads or philosophies at 17,xxx miles. I examined them a couple weeks ago when I changed fork oil and they had many miles left in them.

Dave, do I understand it right, you got 17,000 miles from the OEM pads, just one set?

 

[duk2n]

Some will get it right first time, some will respond to customer complaints and improve over time but most won't get enough feedback to mean anything unless they are miles off with the first attempt.

Chris, although I could agree to your comment, both EBC and GALFER are well know brake manufactures. I don't know about EBC, but GALFER even provides OEM material to some manufacturers

 

[dduelin]

Dave, do I understand it right, you got 17,000 miles from the OEM pads, just one set?

No, at 17,xxx miles I inspected them and had many thousands of miles left in them, many thousands of miles before requiring replacement. I don't know how many mm they are when new (ST1300 pads start at 5mm of friction material) but I estimate 3mm of friction material left at 17,000 miles.

 

[duk2n]

EBC HH type put in stock. Will install soon at my NC700X DCT ABS. Will comment soonest possible.
Phil

Please, do so and let us know if you get the same rattle. The same EBC (FA388HH) pad than mine? It is my understanding all NC models with ABS use the same pads

 

[n30r3l0ad3d]

I'd love to help but I do not have an ABS model, nor am I even close to tearing my brakes down. Maybe OCR can step in here and comment

 

[Phil X]

Please, do so and let us know if you get the same rattle. The same EBC (FA388HH) pad than mine? It is my understanding all NC models with ABS use the same pads

Yes exactly those pads.
Got 1-2mm left on stock pads after 14400km. Will change soon.

 

[johnakay]

could you not cut grove's in but not right through the material??

 

[Chris]

Chris, although I could agree to your comment, both EBC and GALFER are well know brake manufactures. I don't know about EBC, but GALFER even provides OEM material to some manufacturers

That's true.

So is what I wrote - many of them supply OEM but also do aftermarket ranges.

They use their OE experience as a marketing tool - and they do know the product better than some of the cowboys - but they don't have the resources to keep up with testing all models in the market place so they all take short cuts and let people like you do the testing for them. Try just about any brand name you like and you'll find pretty much the same story.

Try testing multiple emergency stops from 120/130 kph and see if the performance is maintained. Last time I conducted a series of tests on aftermarket pads for cars we found some frightening performance issues - one set even caught fire (the finishing lacquer burst into flames).

 

[duk2n]

could you not cut grove's in but not right through the material??

It could be done, but I don't know what tool would be good to do the job, nor I'm confident that the resulting product wouldn't be risky

 

[Trev96]

I wonder if the noise could be the "Trapped Air" effect caused by the ventilated discs. On many bikes with discs that have holes drilled through to aid water dispersion, when the brake is applied there appears to be a faint whizzing sound (may be heard as a far-away rattle?). The noise is caused by air becoming caught in the rotating disc holes by the brake pads as they cover them when applied. The OEM pads' slots may reduce this sound. This effect has been quite significant on BMW's I've ridden.
Just a Thought.

 

[duk2n]

I wonder if the noise could be the "Trapped Air" effect caused by the ventilated discs. On many bikes with discs that have holes drilled through to aid water dispersion, when the brake is applied there appears to be a faint whizzing sound (may be heard as a far-away rattle?). The noise is caused by air becoming caught in the rotating disc holes by the brake pads as they cover them when applied. The OEM pads' slots may reduce this sound. This effect has been quite significant on BMW's I've ridden.
Just a Thought.

It could be. GALFER guys says this too and they suggested my to iron out the edges to see if the noise disappear

 

[happy]

Not too long ago, I was told that some brake pads (OEM) have additional springs or metal pieces built-in to reduce or eliminate any whining sounds from the disc assembly. Buying any other pads will have this "problem".

Also the new pads may also need some bedding in before the noise disappears. Some mechanics even grind down the new pads to hasten the bedding in process.

Just some off-the-cuff comments. I am not sure if this solves your problem.
Wear ear plugs....that is my solution.

 

[johnakay]

Wear ear plugs....that is my solution.

vat didya say??

 

[Phil X]

Please, do so and let us know if you get the same rattle. The same EBC (FA388HH) pad than mine? It is my understanding all NC models with ABS use the same pads

Did not forget about this thread. Changed to EBC FA388HH 10 min ago. Will report.