Electric Everything: Gas is Now Cheaper than a Recharge

[mzflorida]

I'm not saying EVs are bad.
Im not saying that some can and will buy and use them effectively.
There are not for everyone, and not everyone CAN afford them.
Sure with sales price will fall, but only to a point.
Sales up to this point are very low.

You can mandate that no new gas burners will be sold.
Then the old vehicles will be struggling to be maintained and still drivable.
Until you make gas to expensive to use any longer.

EVs will not solve the warming problem, and will not be sooooo much better than gas burners.
BUT since we aren't there yet we cant see all that will happen after we switch over to all EVs.
Just saying it wont all be roses and clear skies using battery powered vehicles.

No addresses the real problem.
This planet should not have as many humans as it does - simple!

I think EVs are great but just not for me at the moment as a primary vehicle. I would not worry too much about ICE vehicles going away even by the 2035 deadlines that have been tossed around. I think that is an aspirational goal and will be pushed out another 10 years, at least, around 2030 or so. Nothing could be truer than your point about EVs not solving warming. Not one single chance. 10% of vehicles sold last year were electric. Millions who used to commute are no longer doing so as work at home is now part of millions of American lives. Not sure how just those two factors intersect in the reduction of pollutants, but we are seeing no meaningful impacts as a result of these two elements.

I think the other thing to remember is that the petroleum industry has very influential lobbyists in DC and Ottawa. Can't rule out their role in this.

 

[mzflorida]

This is interesting. Anderson is a very reputable firm. Their logic is sound. Wondering if those with electric motorcycles could share if this is true with bikes also.

It’s not all about the money though. I put solar on my house for reasons other than economic. I don’t care about the ROI, I just want to produce my own clean energy.

https://s3-prod.autonews.com/2023-01/EV Cost Analysis 2022 Q4 Update.pdf

 

[itsmenc700]

Yea I heard / saw a similar writeup about the cost comparison.
Its going to be kind of like coffee and eggs.
One day they are good for you, the next day dont eat them they are bad for you!

With multi-millions of gas burning vehicles out there, even a steady 20% sales of EV over the next few years will not make dent in anything.
But go ahead and get one IF you so choose.

AND I have also read that lithium is in short supply which is used for EVs.
And that will make increased sales not possible.
And what about the limited amount charging stations, the extreme cold limiting range problem (effects me), ect - the list goes on.
I always thought it would be good for a natural gas powered car, and I could refuel in my garage, but that hasnt happened!
I'll wait and see what the future brings!

 

[670cc]

This is interesting. Anderson is a very reputable firm. Their logic is sound. Wondering if those with electric motorcycles could share if this is true with bikes also.

It’s not all about the money though. I put solar on my house for reasons other than economic. I don’t care about the ROI, I just want to produce my own clean energy.

https://s3-prod.autonews.com/2023-01/EV Cost Analysis 2022 Q4 Update.pdf

Interesting. That report compares vehicle fueling costs and associated taxes, but is not making a comparison of overall vehicle operational costs by type. Added costs associated with ICE operation that are absent with electric vehicles are not considered here, such as air filters, engine oil, oil filters, spark plugs, fuel filters, possible valve adjustment and timing belt changes, coolant changes, possibly DEF, possible transmission maintenance, etc.

I don't measure the electricity cost for charging my electric motorcycle, mainly because I really don't care. Energy is energy, and I expect the relative prices of electricity and gasoline to flip back and forth over time. The same comparisons can be made with home heating, electric vs fossil fuel. I heat primarily with electric because I find it cleaner, more comfortable, and the energy comes from more varied sources locally than just fossil fuel, such as wind and nuclear. I imagine at times electric heating costs are higher than, in my case, propane, and sometimes lower, but that's not the point. In the end, the main way to reduce overall energy costs is to use less of it, regardless of the fuel type.

 

[mzflorida]

Interesting. That report compares vehicle fueling costs and associated taxes, but is not making a comparison of overall vehicle operational costs by type. Added costs associated with ICE operation that are absent with electric vehicles are not considered here, such as air filters, engine oil, oil filters, spark plugs, fuel filters, possible valve adjustment and timing belt changes, coolant changes, possibly DEF, possible transmission maintenance, etc.

I don't measure the electricity cost for charging my electric motorcycle, mainly because I really don't care. Energy is energy, and I expect the relative prices of electricity and gasoline to flip back and forth over time. The same comparisons can be made with home heating, electric vs fossil fuel. I heat primarily with electric because I find it cleaner, more comfortable, and the energy comes from more varied sources locally than just fossil fuel, such as wind and nuclear. I imagine at times electric heating costs are higher than, in my case, propane, and sometimes lower, but that's not the point. In the end, the main way to reduce overall energy costs is to use less of it, regardless of the fuel type.

Very good points on the additional costs. I'd presume that was not in scope for the study. Car and Driver published this on TCO (depreciation, maintenance, etc). This is what they came up with for a few vehicles. Mixed bag.

After three years the grand totals give some insight into the question, "are EVs cheaper?" Based on fuel, maintenance costs, and depreciation over a three-year period here's what we've found for the cost-of-ownership of our subject vehicles:

Hyundai Kona: $19,385

Hyundai Kona Electric: $21,426

Ford F-150: $26,505

Ford F-150 Lightning: $23,840