Question EK screw type master link

[670cc]

I know I’ve said it before, but I like clip-type master links. In some applications they’re significantly weaker in tensile strength than the bulk chain, but that’s a non-issue on the NCX, IMO.

I’m confused about the supposedly weaker strength of clip types links. I can’t think of any reason the side plates and the pins of the clip type link would be made of any weaker materials than the rest of the chain. As long as the clip remains in place to keep the link together, shouldn’t it be just as strong as the rest of the chain?

In any case, the chance of the master link actually breaking is not something I would ever worry about. The reliability of the retention methods of the various master link types would seem to be the only variable.

 

[TheIronWarrior]

I’m confused about the supposedly weaker strength of clip types links. I can’t think of any reason the side plates and the pins of the clip type link would be made of any weaker materials than the rest of the chain. As long as the clip remains in place to keep the link together, shouldn’t it be just as strong as the rest of the chain?

I think it comes from the slightly greater chance that the clip departs. It's supposedly easier for a clip to get pushed off than a (properly driven) rivet to fail.
The clip has basically nothing to do with the "strength" of the chain, the pins and plates take care of that, the clip is only to secure the plate.

 

[Rabbit]

I do lack experience in performing the maintenance activity. However I do not lack experience in lacking experience and am Rabbit enough to admit when I need to take it to a shop. That being said, how does one get experience without wrenching? There are plenty of good books and many helpful videos. My OP was more to see if anyone had experience with a more niche application and any pitfalls they encountered.

It's not about you and your technical experience. But, in this case, from the kind of question asked at the beginning, it can be concluded that the questioner does not have sufficient experience in such an important matter as safe chain connection.
Looking at the description of "EK screw master link" it does not seem to be quite a reliable chain link in a responsible job like a motorcycle drive. And yet it is being considered as an alternative method of secure connection?

I do lack experience in performing the maintenance activity. However I do not lack experience in lacking experience and am Rabbit enough to admit when I need to take it to a shop. That being said, how does one get experience without wrenching? There are plenty of good books and many helpful videos. My OP was more to see if anyone had experience with a more niche application and any pitfalls they encountered.

 

[lootzyan]

...That being said, how does one get experience without wrenching?...

Most of it is not just about having the "wrenching" experience. Unfortunately, this is a problem for many of today's workshops - lack of theoretical foundations.
A small example from this topic. If you initially stated that you have the original EK chain installed on your NC and you ask if it is a good idea to use the original (not a substitute) EK screw type master link - why not, if it is installed exactly in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions. But for this you have to trust this manufacturer that the correct materials and dimensional tolerances are applied.
Personally, to ensure the connection of the chain subjected to high multi-directional stresses, I would not trust too much the connection when the pin is pulled into the hole.

 

[Rabbit]

At what point in time were mechanics trained on the theory of what they are working on? Most mechanics are trained to diagnose and then replace faulty parts based on a manufacturers book (which I have) and personal experience often handed down from older mechanics when they are young (which I have some of and is supplemented by folks on this forum).

The clip links have been used and trusted by thousands of folks before. I may try a rivet style but first I will need a caliper or micrometer. Which is the whole point of looking at the screw type master link as it is supposedly more ‘fool proof’

 

[RC24F2]

Rivet links used to come with the wire spacers to slide in over the o-rings to get the correct gaps. Clip master links only fail (assuming correct installation) when forces other than parallel to the clip are applied as I understand it (i.e. the sprockets are not aligned, or what some call the chain alignment), so I focus on chain alignment rather than wheel/tire alignment.

 

[lootzyan]

At what point in time were mechanics trained on the theory of what they are working on?...

It's not that strange idea at all. There are vocational schools that teach the profession of a vehicle technician and mechanic. (I pay tax on one of these schools). There must only be a demand and an appropriate salary. It is true that many owners of repair shops think that they can do without it, the consequences of which we see here relatively often.

 

[Rabbit]

Rivet links used to come with the wire spacers to slide in over the o-rings to get the correct gaps. Clip master links only fail (assuming correct installation) when forces other than parallel to the clip are applied as I understand it (i.e. the sprockets are not aligned, or what some call the chain alignment), so I focus on chain alignment rather than wheel/tire alignment.

Interesting! That makes sense. Good to know.

 

[TheIronWarrior]

It's not that strange idea at all. There are vocational schools that teach the profession of a vehicle technician and mechanic. (I pay tax on one of these schools). There must only be a demand and an appropriate salary. It is true that many owners of repair shops think that they can do without it, the consequences of which we see here relatively often.

There is a big difference between training a mechanic and learning the theory. Generally the mechanics learn the "do" and not the "why and how".
Case in point, does a mechanic analyze the forces applied to the master link, or does he just squash the rivet until it's as flat as the book says it should be? The theory runs much much deeper than the "doers" even consider. The theory is already taken care of.

 

[TacomaJD]

At what point in time were mechanics trained on the theory of what they are working on? Most mechanics are trained to diagnose and then replace faulty parts based on a manufacturers book (which I have) and personal experience often handed down from older mechanics when they are young (which I have some of and is supplemented by folks on this forum).

The clip links have been used and trusted by thousands of folks before. I may try a rivet style but first I will need a caliper or micrometer. Which is the whole point of looking at the screw type master link as it is supposedly more ‘fool proof’

The rivet style isn't that bad, and a decent chain break/rivet tool can be had for less than $100.

Here is a good video STG done on installation of rivet style links. I used it before my first chain install a few years ago, and have since done 2 more chain installs on other bikes without issue. I much prefer rivet style over clip style, but that is personal preference, similar to Ford vs Chevy, etc. As long as rivet style links exist, that's what I'll use. There's a reason the rest of the links on your chain aren't secured with clip links. .....kidding, I understand the difference there.

This is Brian Van performing the install, who owns Sportbike Track Gear and has an extensive motorcycle racing background. Some may say learning things via Youtube is sketchy....well, maybe if it's a video by "Billy the neighborhood crackhead" but if you know the background and experience of someone like we have here with Brian, this is as good of an instructional video as any.

 

[Rabbit]

The rivet style isn't that bad, and a decent chain break/rivet tool can be had for less than $100.

Here is a good video STG done on installation of rivet style links. I used it before my first chain install a few years ago, and have since done 2 more chain installs on other bikes without issue. I much prefer rivet style over clip style, but that is personal preference, similar to Ford vs Chevy, etc. As long as rivet style links exist, that's what I'll use. There's a reason the rest of the links on your chain aren't secured with clip links. .....kidding, I understand the difference there.

This is Brian Van performing the install, who owns Sportbike Track Gear and has an extensive motorcycle racing background. Some may say learning things via Youtube is sketchy....well, maybe if it's a video by "Billy the neighborhood crackhead" but if you know the background and experience of someone like we have here with Brian, this is as good of an instructional video as any.

Thank you for the video. I am evaluating my different options. All the manufacturers do say that street bikes should use a rivet style. I suppose I might just have to buy the caliper. So many choices, but i sincerely appreciate all the suggestions and feedback.

 

[Rabbit]

Everyone seems to use a digital caliper to measure rivet flare. Any reason I can’t use a micrometer instead?

 

[lootzyan]

...Generally the mechanics learn the "do" and not the "why and how"...

Training a dog sounds very much like this description.
You have an extremely narrow understanding of the meaning of "mechanic" in today's modern vehicle repair service.
If managers relied on this notion of repair personnel, they would not have come far in this business.

 

[TheIronWarrior]

Training a dog sounds very much like this description.
You have an extremely narrow understanding of the meaning of "mechanic" in today's modern vehicle repair service.
If managers relied on this notion of repair personnel, they would not have come far in this business.

Does the mechanic evaluate the properties of the material selected?
Has the mechanic assessed the forces acting on the final drive?

Or is it possible that the mechanic knows a properly installed riveted master link has such-and-such a head dimension without really putting too much thought into the work that went into determining these values?
Don't misunderstand, mechanics are generally quite skilled and knowledgeable in their fields.
I've had formal training in the design and analysis of internal combustion engines and machine parts well beyond what I would feel confident in saying the vast majority of mechanics, and I'm pretty sure THIS is the type of theory Mr. Rabbit was referring to. You seem to be conflating "theory" with "experience and background knowledge". In general, mechanics do not perform stress analysis.

 

[Bskicrash1]

I normally use RK brand chains on my road legal motorcycles. However, I am tempted to purchase an EK chain and use this screw master link.

I have replaced over two dozen clip style master links on off road motocross bikes.

I have replaced less than a dozen rivet style master links on road bikes.

I have used clip style master links on my dual sport motorcycles (klx650, dr350, crf250l, klr650) and I safety wired MOST of the links for assurance. I never lost a clip on any of the road style motorcycles, however, I have lost the safety wire. Off road, I have lost clips, but never had a chain break.

With this experience, on the NC, I would “try” a screw master link. However, if I didn’t feel confident, I would replace it with a rivet link.

I purchased a rivet tool and chain breaker kit from harbor freight for less than $50. I’ve used it for years. With the proper rivet tool, it is difficult to over tighten the rivet due to the design of the rivet nipple. It will only allow the rivet to flare to a certain point then the tool won’t tighten and rivet any further. Motion pro tools also have this design and so does Pit Posse.

Watching some install videos online for the EK screw design, It appears as if I would trust it’s design.

 

[Rabbit]

Does the mechanic evaluate the properties of Don't misunderstand, mechanics are generally quite skilled and knowledgeable in their fields.-
many are the issue I have seen first hand is you don’t know if you have the 20 year vet working on your vehicle or the 21 year old just out of MMI.

I'm pretty sure THIS is the type of theory Mr. Rabbit was referring to.—-yes, I mostly was. I’ve talked to and worked with mechanics. Most of their training is focused on diagnosis and the ins and outs of replacing parts, and much of that comes from OJT from more senior mechanics. A great example that I’ve seen: what weight oil you use. Car calls for 5w20. Shop stocks 5w30. When asked shouldn’t they use what was specified I got the response that it doesn’t really make a difference. Now I don’t know if that’s true but I do know that when I change my own oil or spark plugs or chain it can be done to manufacturers specifications.

 

[Rabbit]

I normally use RK brand chains on my road legal motorcycles. However, I am tempted to purchase an EK chain and use this screw master link.

I have replaced over two dozen clip style master links on off road motocross bikes.

I have replaced less than a dozen rivet style master links on road bikes.

I have used clip style master links on my dual sport motorcycles (klx650, dr350, crf250l, klr650) and I safety wired MOST of the links for assurance. I never lost a clip on any of the road style motorcycles, however, I have lost the safety wire. Off road, I have lost clips, but never had a chain break.

With this experience, on the NC, I would “try” a screw master link. However, if I didn’t feel confident, I would replace it with a rivet link.

I purchased a rivet tool and chain breaker kit from harbor freight for less than $50. I’ve used it for years. With the proper rivet tool, it is difficult to over tighten the rivet due to the design of the rivet nipple. It will only allow the rivet to flare to a certain point then the tool won’t tighten and rivet any further. Motion pro tools also have this design and so does Pit Posse.

Watching some install videos online for the EK screw design, It appears as if I would trust it’s design.

Let us know what you think. The big concern I have is the small bumps might drag inside the bodywork and cause an issue

 

[670cc]

I purchased a rivet tool and chain breaker kit from harbor freight for less than $50. I’ve used it for years. With the proper rivet tool, it is difficult to over tighten the rivet due to the design of the rivet nipple. It will only allow the rivet to flare to a certain point then the tool won’t tighten and rivet any further. Motion pro tools also have this design and so does Pit Posse.

I must have really screwed up. Using a Motion Pro PBR chain rivet tool, I overtightened and damaged a VX2 rivet link on an NC chain. Had to remove and discard the link, and start over with a new one.

 

[Rabbit]

I must have really screwed up. Using a Motion Pro PBR chain rivet tool, I overtightened and damaged a VX2 rivet link on an NC chain. Had to remove and discard the link, and start over with a new one.

Supposedly the DID tool has this function but I wasn’t aware motion pro did.

 

[MZ5]

I’m confused about the supposedly weaker strength of clip types links. I can’t think of any reason the side plates and the pins of the clip type link would be made of any weaker materials than the rest of the chain.

I found it confusing as well when I found tensile strength ratings from several chain manufacturers for their master links and bulk chain of a couple sizes. To be clear, then, I did not come up with the notion that the master links are weaker than the bulk chain. That is simply what the chain manufacturers reported when I was looking very hard for that kind of info several years ago.

At that time, all the chain manufacturers but one that we would likely recognize or possibly use rated all their various master links as lower tensile strength than the bulk chain. The clip-type masters were either not offered or not reported by them all, but some of them were even lower than the other master link types.