DCT Generations

[tallman]

On Honda's current powersports.honda.com I read under NC700X Innovations that "for 2016 the latest third generation DCT ---------" What year NCs had different generation DCTs? What were the differences? Are there differences to be considered by used NC buyers. Reliability issues, etc.? What makes the latest iteration (2016) different or even better??? Thanks.

 

[drdubb]

I think there is a third auto mode on the 16's.

 

[kpinvt]

Automatic Dual-Clutch Transmission (DCT)
Want to know more details about Honda's Automatic Dual-Clutch Transmission (DCT)?
Here's a page that offers riding reviews, product overviews and a DCT Q&A.

2016 NC700X Overview - Honda Powersports

New for 2016: the NC700X now comes with our third-generation DCT with new settings and three choices in the “S” mode.

I guess no "G" switch for gravel like the Africa Twin. I wonder if there is a new fore-and-aft lean angle sensor like the one on the AT?

 

[mike5100]

I think generation 1 was only on the vfr1200 All the nc's were gen 2 until the latest just out 2016 models which are gen 3. Apart from the extra sport modes the clutch engagement is softened at low speed/low revs. And there's some more sophistication to do with uphill and downhill sensors
Mike

 

[AdamW]

I think generation 1 was only on the vfr1200 All the nc's were gen 2 until the latest just out 2016 models which are gen 3. Apart from the extra sport modes the clutch engagement is softened at low speed/low revs. And there's some more sophistication to do with uphill and downhill sensors
Mike

That's what I thought, too.

 

[dduelin]

Gen 1 was released with the 2010 VFR1200. This box shifted in Manual and Auto modes. Auto had a Drive and Sport mode but no ability to manually override the DCT logic's shift points. Gen 2 added the ability to override the logic and riders could manually override shifts while in Auto modes. Gen 3 in the NC adds multiple Sport modes while in Auto.

In the Africa Twin the 3rd Gen DCT is even more sophisticated with variable clutch take-up characteristics and logic that senses if the bike is going uphill or downhill plus the multiple Sport modes. Grade sensing changes shift points but it does it by comparing ground speed and to rpms in the current selected gear - there are no sensors that measure tilt or grade. If a bike is going downhill the computer knows the bike should not be picking up speed based on gear and rpms and the reverse when going up grade.

 

[Old Can Ride]

After talking to Dave and Fuzzy I knew that my next bike had to the a DCT. The Africa Twin that I purchased does have all the new DCT features. Only problem I see with the Africa twin is 91 octane gas and no frunk.

 

[TigerDude]

Those are not Honda's only DCT's. My Acura TLX has an 8 speed. I like it a lot.

 

[mike5100]

Gen 1 was released with the 2010 VFR1200. This box shifted in Manual and Auto modes. Auto had a Drive and Sport mode but no ability to manually override the DCT logic's shift points. Gen 2 added the ability to override the logic and riders could manually override shifts while in Auto modes. Gen 3 in the NC adds multiple Sport modes while in Auto.

In the Africa Twin the 3rd Gen DCT is even more sophisticated with variable clutch take-up characteristics and logic that senses if the bike is going uphill or downhill plus the multiple Sport modes. Grade sensing changes shift points but it does it by comparing ground speed and to rpms in the current selected gear - there are no sensors that measure tilt or grade. If a bike is going downhill the computer knows the bike should not be picking up speed based on gear and rpms and the reverse when going up grade.

Dave - what makes you think the extra sophistication is not included on the new NC750. I have just ordered one on the basis that it does have these, and certainly the demo bike seemed noticeably nicer at low revs low speed than my existing 2014 dct, but maybe I was imagining it
Mike

 

[dduelin]

Dave - what makes you think the extra sophistication is not included on the new NC750. I have just ordered one on the basis that it does have these, and certainly the demo bike seemed noticeably nicer at low revs low speed than my existing 2014 dct, but maybe I was imagining it
Mike

The 2016 has the added sophistication of multiple Sport modes (3) but not grade sensing or variable clutch take-up (G button) of the Africa Twin. This is based on what Honda has released on their website. There may indeed be fueling or clutch control software changes you noticed at low speed but Honda hasn't advertised them to my knowledge.

 

[mike5100]

The 2016 has the added sophistication of multiple Sport modes (3) but not grade sensing or variable clutch take-up (G button) of the Africa Twin. This is based on what Honda has released on their website. There may indeed be fueling or clutch control software changes you noticed at low speed but Honda hasn't advertised them to my knowledge.

This is what it says on the Honda Europe site about the new dct on the NC 750X. So I guess that adaptive clutch capability is what I noticed on the demo bike (does it mean they just slip the clutch a bit )

"The DCT used by the NC750X now features “Adaptive Clutch Capability Control” that manages the amount of clutch torque transmitted. This adds a natural ‘feathered’ clutch feel when opening or shutting off the throttle for a smoother ride. Further refinements include faster operation of the N-D switch on turning on the ignition and a control system in AT mode for gauging the angle of ascent or descent and adapting shift pattern accordingly."
Mike

 

[dduelin]

This is what it says on the Honda Europe site about the new dct on the NC 750X. So I guess that adaptive clutch capability is what I noticed on the demo bike (does it mean they just slip the clutch a bit )

"The DCT used by the NC750X now features “Adaptive Clutch Capability Control” that manages the amount of clutch torque transmitted. This adds a natural ‘feathered’ clutch feel when opening or shutting off the throttle for a smoother ride. Further refinements include faster operation of the N-D switch on turning on the ignition and a control system in AT mode for gauging the angle of ascent or descent and adapting shift pattern accordingly."
Mike

Hey, thanks for that information. I learned something new.

 

[mercurydog47]

Does anybody know if the Adaptive Clutch Technology applies to any of the 2017 US models? I consider the NC700x has a variety of weaknesses and low speed maneuvering is one of them. Unlike other weaknesses, this can't be corrected or added after market.

 

[GgarryP]

Does anybody know if the Adaptive Clutch Technology applies to any of the 2017 US models? I consider the NC700x has a variety of weaknesses and low speed maneuvering is one of them. Unlike other weaknesses, this can't be corrected or added after market.

Low speed handling isn't a problem with the DCT. Simply balance throttle against rear brake to get fine slow speed control.
This may actually work better than throttle and clutch control which doesn't have a positive way to reduce speed without adding the brake as a third control mechanism.
It takes a little practice but works great.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[GgarryP]

PS - This is for my 2016 with adaptive clutch control.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[dduelin]

PS - This is for my 2016 with adaptive clutch control.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

It’s the same easy slow speed control on my 2015 without adaptive torque control. Set speed with steady throttle and modulate speed with rear brake.

 

[DCTFAN]

Does anybody know if the Adaptive Clutch Technology applies to any of the 2017 US models? I consider the NC700x has a variety of weaknesses and low speed maneuvering is one of them. Unlike other weaknesses, this can't be corrected or added after market.

Don't believe so.
The 2018 NC750X is the one with "adaptive clutch control" meaning it introduces a little more clutch slip, like the AT (AT has a 'slipper clutch' in addition to software control).
"

• Available Dual Clutch Transmission (DCT) features two automatic modes—DRIVE and SPORT—plus the manual mode. Adaptive Clutch Capability Control manages the amount of clutch torque transmitted, adding a “feathered” clutch feel when opening or closing the throttle, for a smoother ride. For 2018, the DCT rev ceiling for upshifts has been raised to 7,500 rpm to make more use of the engine’s peak power"

Coming from a 2015 NC700X, I did not appreciate this feature on the AT, at first.
All it seemed to do was introduce a subtle lag in response to throttle input, but it does smooth out
the engine, especially for 2-up riding.

 

[Red Rider]

A little rear brake along with some rpms is second nature now and it works perfectly to handle turns, parking lot maneuvers, or any other situation that was once handled by slipping the friction point with a manual clutch. It’s a total non-issue.

 

[potter0o]

My experience with slow speed maneuvers makes me think about a combination of controlling the rpms, clutch engagement and rear brake. Not have ridden a DCT it seems like low speed maneuvers would actually be easier by removing the clutch engagement component. Different experience perhaps if you are used to operating a clutch...but what do I know...the internet with free opinions and what not

 

[Jos]

When I bought my NC ('14 with second Gen DCT), I really feared the time I would have to put it on the trailer to bring it home. I usually do this alone, feathering the clutch while beside the bike on the ramp.

It was a complete non issue in the end, and while you get less control of the exact moment traction starts, it does so smoothly enough that the bike does not jump forward.