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Crush Washer LOW DOWN

I find this odd. You have OCD on what I would consider wasting money on oil changes (to each his own). But you have no problem risking loosing oil, and possible motor damage, as it drains by a extremely cheap component that is easily replaced every oil change?

Priorities mate!

For the record I use a crush washer 2 or 3 times too. you have managed to use it at least 18 times by your own data.

Well, looking to see if it is leaking was really easy-never leaked. The crush washer on the bmw was a copper crush washer which never crushed, why replace it if it was never leaking. The BMW also had a oil pump reserve on top of the bike, basically, where the NC-700 storage trunk is located.
 
Ignore the peanut gallery, 2K oil changes on that model BMW was a smart move and I'd like to see a slow weeping crush washer empty a bike's oil reservoir. Maybe with gross incompetence. They can be reused many times and almost ALL dealers do NOT replace any crush washers when you bring your bike in for an oil change. People that think 2k is wasting money on oil changes for a big thumper are the ones waiting till 8k on this bike and will wonder down the road why their engine didn't last.
 
Ignore the peanut gallery, 2K oil changes on that model BMW was a smart move and I'd like to see a slow weeping crush washer empty a bike's oil reservoir. Maybe with gross incompetence. They can be reused many times and almost ALL dealers do NOT replace any crush washers when you bring your bike in for an oil change. People that think 2k is wasting money on oil changes for a big thumper are the ones waiting till 8k on this bike and will wonder down the road why their engine didn't last.

Did someone leave the door open?

As long as a weeping crush washer doesn't empty the sump it's good to go and following the manufacturer's recommended oil change interval will destroy the engine. It is also appreciated that you have interviewed all dealers about crush washer re-use and summarized this for us.

Marvelous
 
Ignore the peanut gallery, 2K oil changes on that model BMW was a smart move and I'd like to see a slow weeping crush washer empty a bike's oil reservoir. Maybe with gross incompetence. They can be reused many times and almost ALL dealers do NOT replace any crush washers when you bring your bike in for an oil change. People that think 2k is wasting money on oil changes for a big thumper are the ones waiting till 8k on this bike and will wonder down the road why their engine didn't last.

So it's good to ignore the OEM's advice on both crush washer replacements and oil change intervals? Why waste time and money on crush washers when you can waste it on excess oil changes?

I do believe that the motor oil marketers are doing well at convincing people to change their engine oil way more often than needed. I recommend just following the manufacturer's maintenance schedule until it's otherwise proven inadequate.

Greg
 
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Is this where I get to put in my preference for using analytical data from your specific bike and oil? :p
 
Just speculating here because I haven't changed the oil yet with only 70 miles on the bike, but is it an actual crush washer or the solid copper type?

My Yamaha had the actual crush washer style from the factory which I promptly replaced with the correct size solid copper washer at the first oil change. That replacement washer is still on there at 75,000 miles after a bunch of 5000 mile oil change intervals. I plan on using the 5000 mile oil change interval on the NC700 also because it is so much easier to remember changes at that interval.

Like others have mentioned, I also order a bunch of parts at the same time so that shipping on the $0.50 crush washers would be negligible. But I'll probably still use a solid copper sealing washer just to avoid having to pry off a crush washer everytime. ;)
 
Just speculating here because I haven't changed the oil yet with only 70 miles on the bike, but is it an actual crush washer or the solid copper type?

My Yamaha had the actual crush washer style from the factory which I promptly replaced with the correct size solid copper washer at the first oil change. That replacement washer is still on there at 75,000 miles after a bunch of 5000 mile oil change intervals. I plan on using the 5000 mile oil change interval on the NC700 also because it is so much easier to remember changes at that interval.

Like others have mentioned, I also order a bunch of parts at the same time so that shipping on the $0.50 crush washers would be negligible. But I'll probably still use a solid copper sealing washer just to avoid having to pry off a crush washer everytime. ;)


I'm a little perplexed by your distinction or meaning between: "an actual crush washer" versus a: "solid copper type"

The NCX oil drain plug crush washer is aluminum, rather than copper, but both do exactly the same task, and are both called crush washers as far as I know. I can't hazard a guess as to which offers "less", or "more" er... crush worthiness, lol, but to say: "actual crush washer" or "solid copper type" the way you do, implies something that I don't quite follow?

The only thing I can think of, is maybe you are referring to the hollow copper donut type of dealios like for exhaust header flanges? I've always thought of and heard those called "gaskets" never crush washers, and they've only ever been (in my experience) strictly related to exhaust pipes, never liquid sealing joints.
 
I'm a little perplexed by your distinction or meaning between: "an actual crush washer" versus a: "solid copper type"
-snip-
The only thing I can think of, is maybe you are referring to the hollow copper donut type of dealios like for exhaust header flanges? I've always thought of and heard those called "gaskets" never crush washers, and they've only ever been (in my experience) strictly related to exhaust pipes, never liquid sealing joints.

That's exactly what I was referring to. I don't know how many motorcycles use the copper donut type, but that's what comes factory on my 2007 Yamaha FJR1300.
 
That's exactly what I was referring to. I don't know how many motorcycles use the copper donut type, but that's what comes factory on my 2007 Yamaha FJR1300.

Learn something new every day! I've never seen or heard of those being used for oil drain plug washers :)

Of course the only two Yamahas (that I remember) owning, were RD350LC two strokes that didn't have crank case oil or filter. (and ironically enough in the spirit of the use for copper donut gaskets, they didn't use any for the expansion chamber pipes either, but instead, some weird spiral wrapped aluminum, asbestos-like filled contraptions, which were nasty as all get out to deal with, lol)
 
I'm a little perplexed by your distinction or meaning between: "an actual crush washer" versus a: "solid copper type"

The NCX oil drain plug crush washer is aluminum, rather than copper, but both do exactly the same task, and are both called crush washers as far as I know. I can't hazard a guess as to which offers "less", or "more" er... crush worthiness, lol, but to say: "actual crush washer" or "solid copper type" the way you do, implies something that I don't quite follow?

The only thing I can think of, is maybe you are referring to the hollow copper donut type of dealios like for exhaust header flanges? I've always thought of and heard those called "gaskets" never crush washers, and they've only ever been (in my experience) strictly related to exhaust pipes, never liquid sealing joints.

I doubt that any manufacturer uses solid copper on an aluminum engine block. copper on aluminum creates a galvanic corrosion. If Yamaha uses them against aluminum they probably have a zinc coating to prevent that.

My understanding of the oil drain plug is that its primary purpose is to seal and keep oil from leaking out. This is very easily done with a hardened steel plug and an aluminum contact surface that are machined flat and smooth.

The problem is that these are frequently loosened and tightened by non-mechanical type people, and they are often over-tightened. The washer is not necessary to seal the oil in. It is there to protect the aluminum engine block and the aluminum threads that the drain plug screws into. Its purpose is to "give" when someone over tightens, rather than damaging the threads.

Someone like myself, who always changes his own oil and never over tightens will never "crush" the washer, and thus it will never need replacing. I don't need a torque wrench, I just know how much to tighten. Tight enough to seal and not come loose, and no tighter. I don't know what Hondas torque specs are, but if they are anything like how tight they had the oil filter on my NC, they are either way too tight or they are not followed by the assembly people :cool:

Once the washer has been crushed, it must be replaced. Aluminum is soft and malleable (which is why it is used here), but pushed too far will crack and tear. Once it cracks, your seal is gone. You might just have a slow drip. Or it could leak out the entire pan.

As far as annealing, I do not see the point in trying to salvage a .60 cent item. Spend the .60 cents and get a new one.

If you are a person who likes to over tighten things, and / or if the Honda specs tell you to over tighten the drain plug (to be really really safe maybe?), then yes you might want to keep extra washers on hand.

I don't plan on replacing mine unless it really needs it, which it never will, because I will be the only person changing the oil on this bike :cool:
 
I doubt that any manufacturer uses solid copper on an aluminum engine block. copper on aluminum creates a galvanic corrosion. If Yamaha uses them against aluminum they probably have a zinc coating to prevent that.

My understanding of the oil drain plug is that its primary purpose is to seal and keep oil from leaking out. This is very easily done with a hardened steel plug and an aluminum contact surface that are machined flat and smooth.

The problem is that these are frequently loosened and tightened by non-mechanical type people, and they are often over-tightened. The washer is not necessary to seal the oil in. It is there to protect the aluminum engine block and the aluminum threads that the drain plug screws into. Its purpose is to "give" when someone over tightens, rather than damaging the threads.

Someone like myself, who always changes his own oil and never over tightens will never "crush" the washer, and thus it will never need replacing. I don't need a torque wrench, I just know how much to tighten. Tight enough to seal and not come loose, and no tighter. I don't know what Hondas torque specs are, but if they are anything like how tight they had the oil filter on my NC, they are either way too tight or they are not followed by the assembly people :cool:

Once the washer has been crushed, it must be replaced. Aluminum is soft and malleable (which is why it is used here), but pushed too far will crack and tear. Once it cracks, your seal is gone. You might just have a slow drip. Or it could leak out the entire pan.

As far as annealing, I do not see the point in trying to salvage a .60 cent item. Spend the .60 cents and get a new one.

If you are a person who likes to over tighten things, and / or if the Honda specs tell you to over tighten the drain plug (to be really really safe maybe?), then yes you might want to keep extra washers on hand.

I don't plan on replacing mine unless it really needs it, which it never will, because I will be the only person changing the oil on this bike :cool:

[insert standard "my opinions are my own and do not reflect the yada yada, don't try this at home, YMMV and so on", here]

All my previous bikes aside from my CBR, my BMW, and now my NCX, have had solid copper drain plug crush washers, not aluminum. The crush washers at the coolant drain bolts on all my bikes are solid copper. I am old school and still look at the "new fangled" aluminum jobbies as alien and slightly suspect, lol.

All but two of my bikes had copper donut gaskets in the exhaust flange seal points. All bikes were aluminum blocks.

I think I may have replaced a few drain plug crush washers over the last 40+ years just for something to do, but less than a handful. Never had an oil leak or so much as a drip. Never used a torque wrench or stripped a drain bolt.

My zook still has the original crush washer it came from the factory with, and I bought it brand new over 22 years ago...
 
Does anyone have a spare washer sitting around and can they measure the inside and outside diameters and the thickness with a caliper?
 
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