A quicker turning sport touring tire?

[Craig92DA9]

This is my first motorcycle, and the first and only I have ever ridden. I am currently on my second set of tires, michelin PR3's. The first tires were the metzler Z8's. The only thing I diddnt like about the metzlers was the mileage I got from them. 5,200mi.
I have about 4,000mi on my PR3's and they have about 40% remaining tread life, so better for me than the metzlers in that respect. I have no complaints with either tire on traction wet or dry. I am however unhappy with the speed and effort of turn in or switching over from one direction directly to the other with the PR3 compared to the metzler. From the very beginning they felt lazier entering turns or transitioning from one direction to the other. I don't want to go back to the metzler yet just because I want to continue feeling out different tires, but I do want to stick in the sport touring category. I think any sport touring tire would meet my needs in traction wet or dry I just want a sportier profile.

In comparison to the Metzler Z8 and/or the Michelin PR3, What sport touring tires in your experiences have quicker more effortless turn in from your personal experience?

I was considering Pirelli Angel GT's hoping that they may have a sportier profile given their racing heritage. I wasn't betting that the new PR4 would be any sharper in that respect than it's predisessor. Am I wrong? I would like to draw on the experiences of you fine folks, what do you think?

 

[670cc]

I don't have much to compare to on the NC, but I currently have a Metzeler on the rear and a Conti Motion on the front. Any new tire turns better than a worn tire, but the new Motion feels pretty flickable and really sticks. Best thing is they are very inexpensive; the unknown is how long do they last. I have a Motion rear to install when the Metzeler is gone.

I guess for only about $170 for the front/rear set, they're worth a try.

 

[Craig92DA9]

So the conti motion is at least as flickable as the metzler if not more from your experience. That's good info. And at 170 a set it's not as big of a deal if they don't last long considering I paid 360 for my PR3's. For me even going from a worn out set of Z8's to a new set of PR3's the Michelins felt noticeably slower to turn in or transition.

Other opinions/experiences on turning speed/effort with different sport touring tires on the NC? It seems to be an area with little mention in the side by side comparisons I've found around the Internet on current sport touring tires.

 

[OldJeff]

I had the stock Z8s replaced at 7400 miles with PR4s, the front tire was fine, but the rear was toast. I think the PR4 is more flickable than the Z8 ever was.

 

[SergeantChuck]

Glad OldJeff spoke up because I would not have been able to give a comparison between the Z8 and the PR4. My bike came stock with the BT-023. I brought this same topic up when I switched from the BT-023 to the PR4. I noticed an immediate change for the better after installing the PR4. Same tire pressure I ran on the BT-023s but the PR4 felt much more flickable. I reference the tire pressure because at first I thought the PR4 may have been over inflated. The front BT-023 was nowhere near being worn out and swapping the tire should not have made that much difference. A couple people commented that the vendor that installed there PR4 informed them that the PR4 would turn in more easily than what they were used to. I just went over 4000 miles on the tires and the rear tire is still looking really good. I do more commuting than weekend riding which will wear the center strip quickly. This tire is holding up better than the BT-023 so far.

 

[buckshot]

Get the Angel GTs. I just replaced my dead front Z8 with a new Angel GT and I love the way my bike turns now. Now, that's likely got more to do with the fact that it's a brand new tire replacing something that was on the verge of showing cord, but still, I'm very happy with it. I already have an Angel ST on the back of the bike, and it has more than outlasted the stock Z8 rear. And it looks like it's just getting broken in. I am very happy with my Pirelli Angels so far.

 

[670cc]

The problem I have with evaluating different tires is that trying to compare the new tire to what I THINK the old one felt like 8000 miles ago is nearly impossible. Any new tire always feels better than the squared off old one you took off. You pretty much need a side by side comparison which is not economically feasible.

 

[buckshot]

I agree 100%. That's where the magazines come in to play. But of course, nobody trusts them anymore. Handling differences aside, one thing I know for a fact about the Pirellis is that they wear substantially better than the stock Metzlers in my application.

 

[SergeantChuck]

The problem I have with evaluating different tires is that trying to compare the new tire to what I THINK the old one felt like 8000 miles ago is nearly impossible. Any new tire always feels better than the squared off old one you took off. You pretty much need a side by side comparison which is not economically feasible.

I agree with yourt statement. You'll notice a difference with any tire change due to wear. I had changed my tires well before they needed it. I wanted the new PR4s but I didn't need them yet. At that point the bike was only 7 months old and for me it was not a "I think" there was a difference. There was a definite difference. Still I agree with what you stated.

 

[dduelin]

I am conflicted with this decision myself. I liked the Z8's myself but for just a few dollars more than new Z8s mounted a set of PR3s 10,000 miles ago. The Z8 is quicker steering and more nimble than the Pilot Roads but I ride in rain quite often and I wanted to try 3s on the NC. I was aware of the numb steering characteristics of Pilot Roads on my ST1300 from multiple pairs from the first gen PRs through the 3s but they are a superb rain tire and very grippy in the dry....just not as tactile and crisp steering as sportier rubber. Anyway, the rear PR3 is 1/32" from wear bars and the front has 3/32" left of the original 5/32". I'm thinking of mounting a Pilot Power or Power 2CT sport tire on the rear and try and get 5000 or 6000 miles out of it and also wear out the front at the same time then mount a matched pair of whatever next time. The Powers are $130 to $145. I ran Powers on a VFR I had 8 years ago and liked them but wonder if tire tech has moved on so far since 2006 I'll be disappointed in the pair-up. If I buy a PR3 rear now I'll be looking at a worn out front tire and a good rear tire down the road.

I just married off a daughter last weekend and value for the money is important right now. I don't want to mix brands.

 

[Jelly]

I've just had Avon Storm Ultra 2s fitted and the first thing I noticed was how sweet it rolled into and out of corners.

Totally recommend these for the NCX, I had them on a Suzuki RF900 a few years ago and they were good for grip, wet and dry, and quite a long tyre life as I recall.

Apparently they're designed to give a bigger contact patch on lean angles.

http://www.avon-tyres.co.uk/motorcycle/storm-2-ultra

 

[Craig92DA9]

I had the stock Z8s replaced at 7400 miles with PR4s, the front tire was fine, but the rear was toast. I think the PR4 is more flickable than the Z8 ever was.

That is interesting, has anyone ridden both a PR3 and a PR4? Was there an obvious difference between the two in this area?

 

[Craig92DA9]

Get the Angel GTs. I just replaced my dead front Z8 with a new Angel GT and I love the way my bike turns now. Now, that's likely got more to do with the fact that it's a brand new tire replacing something that was on the verge of showing cord, but still, I'm very happy with it.

That's why i was so shocked that the PR3 immediately felt lazier on turn in and switching direction compared to my Z8's which I had just ridden on in the morning, and my Z8's were more than done at that point.

 

[Oldenuf]

Put on a pair of Shinko 009 Ravens, in stock sizes, a couple hundred miles back, and have to say I like them better than the OEM Bridgstones. They warm up fast at the recommended NC pressures. The Bridgestones seemed slow to warm, and I usually ran them 4 to 5 psi less than the recommended psi. They give a softer ride on rough roads and are quieter. They feel solid in the corners and tolerate line corrections well. Seem to have a lot of tread depth.

Art

 

[670cc]

Interesting to note the comments made by Motorcycle Consumer News in their current test of the BMW R1200RT, which came fitted with PR4 GT tires. Quoting the article, "Michelin's new Pilot Road 4 GT tires didn't impress us with their squirmy feel and heavy steering."

I don't what the GT is or whether that's the tire that fits the NC700, but when I read that article I thought of this thread.

 

[dduelin]

Interesting to note the comments made by Motorcycle Consumer News in their current test of the BMW R1200RT, which came fitted with PR4 GT tires. Quoting the article, "Michelin's new Pilot Road 4 GT tires didn't impress us with their squirmy feel and heavy steering."

I don't what the GT is or whether that's the tire that fits the NC700, but when I read that article I thought of this thread.

I thought the same thing when I read that in MCN. GT spec tires are ones with a reinforced carcass that are recommended for bikes weighing more than 550 lbs.

 

[Craig92DA9]

The GT PR4 would defiantly not be necessary for the NC, it's not that heavy. I would assume the standard PR4 turns quicker than the PR4GT, but is the PR4 noticeably more flickable than the PR3?

 

[SergeantChuck]

http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/05/13/michelin-pilot-road-4-sport-touring-tires-performance-review/

http://www.spiritstrike.com/gear/2014/1/15/michelin-pilot-road-4-tires

Samsung Galaxy S4

 

[Craig92DA9]

The only thing I diddnt like about the metzlers was the mileage I got from them. 5,200mi.
I have about 4,000mi on my PR3's and they have about 40% remaining tread life, so better for me than the metzlers in that respect.

I should have kept my mouth shut, ha ha. Mr Murphy got me. I had my bike in the shop getting new suspension all around and got the call "hey your tires are all but done, want new ones while we're at it?" That was with 5,200mi on my PR3's, so I was way off when I thought i had 40% left. That is the same mileage I got out of my Z8's. My mechanic blamed an increase in rider confidence on the PR3 wearing out so fast, if I'd had that experience when I first got the bike i would not have gotten so many miles out of the Z8's, oh well.

I decided to go ahead and try out the PR4's but apparently the 160/60R17 was out of stock nation wide, while the Pirelli Angel GT rear was only out of stock in california, Angel GT's it is then! I could not be happier with the turning of the Pirelli's, definitely much sharper than the PR3, maybe even sharper than the Z8 (its been too long to say for sure for me). I have not had a chance to ride them in the rain yet, I have only a few hundred miles on them now, so we'll see how long these last. I live up 5 miles of very twisty road made of very rough, almost rocky, asphalt which is mostly why i get so little miles out of my tires compared to a lot of other members.

 

[Josh H]

If it hasn't been said already (don't have time to read the entire thread), you have once again opened the proverbial can of worms...the Z8 vs. PR4 debate.
I am no expert what-so-ever and some might even say I'm a novice, however I have owned and used both of these tires. I was head-over-heals with the Z8's. When the back tire started showing steel at 12,000 miles I bought another identical set. At around 10k more miles, the back tire was once again shot. So, because I like exploring my options, I opted for a set of the PR4's. And, I'll tell you this, I will not be going back to the Z8's. There is something about the PR4's that have given me much more confidence in corners and in wet conditions. They really do feel more sticky than the Z8's ever did. Now, as far as "flickability" I can't say whether one is better than the other. Honestly, I can't tell a difference. I've only put about 2k miles on the set of PR4's (mostly straight-line commuting) and they still look brand new.