What makes the o-rings in a chain split?

[Paulplex]

I posted in the "what did you do today?" thread a photo of my bike chain, where after spending some time cleaning the bike, I noticed the rubber o-rings were splitting on a number of the chain links:

A colleague at work said "ah, bad wheel alignment!" - which makes sense I suppose, if the chain has to contend with motion not only around the sprockets but at an angle as it goes around the back wheel.

However, below...

...the back...

...and the idiot.

All seems to be aligned okay (maybe not me perhaps), tension at 40mm on the side stand too - so what causes the chain to degrade like this do you think?

 

[melensdad]

Just curious, how many miles have you ridden with that chain?

Is that the OEM sprocket?

Is that the OEM chain?

BTW, I have no answer to your question. Just more questions.

 

[Red Rider]

All I can think of is maybe overly aggressive cleaning or brushing(?)

 

[Paulplex]

Just curious, how many miles have you ridden with that chain?

Less than 6,000 miles - I would have expected better...

Is that the OEM sprocket?

Is that the OEM chain?

Not OEM - bought the chain and sprockets together on eBay (link here) - DID chain and JT sprockets. Sprockets haven't really worn that much and the chain hasn't really stretched that much either - I don't think I've had need to adjust the chain at all, since these were fitted.

All I can think of is maybe overly aggressive cleaning or brushing(?)

I don't think so - I use Rockoil chain lube and haven't really had much need to clean it since it was installed. I'll admit, the last clean was a very thorough one ...but it's before I'd started that I noted the state of the chain.

Bad eBay purchase ...or bad luck perhaps?

 

[TacomaJD]

If you were sandwiched in between two pieces of metal that constantly pivots at high speeds, you'd degrade and split after a while too. LOL

There aren't too many factors that can go into this. 1.) the type of rubber the o rings are made out of. 2.) the design and tolerance of pressure on the o rings from the manufacturer. 3.) how well they've been lubed (from the outside), as lubing is sure to help protect the o rings longer. and 4.) the level of grime/debris the o rings have been exposed to.

I'm no chain expert, these are just my opinions on factors that surround a chain's longevity.

Keep it lubed often, take it off and soak it in kerosene every so often, then reinstall and lube if you really want to maximize chain life. To me, a chain is a consumable, if I get 10k miles out of a chain, I'm fine with that. I'm not going to kill myself overly maintaining a chain for 50% longer life, when that effort could just be spent on installing a new chain every 10k miles or so.

I hate worrying over things, I've just come to terms with things are going to wear out and need replaced. Long as I do a half-arse job at maintaining, then my duty is done. No need in worrying about trivial things to the point of driving yourself crazy (which is what I used to do).

If it were me, it would be on the list of things to replace, given the o rings are failing, but in the bigger picture, there's no telling how long it may last before actually failing to the point of needing replaced. Definitely not going to hurt it to keep on riding it for now until you get around to picking up a new chain. Just keep it lubed and ride on.

 

[Paulplex]

If it were me, it would be on the list of things to replace, given the o rings are failing, but in the bigger picture, there's no telling how long it may last before actually failing to the point of needing replaced. Definitely not going to hurt it to keep on riding it for now until you get around to picking up a new chain. Just keep it lubed and ride on.

Yup, that's my thought; keep an eye, make sure there aren't any tight spots developing and lube it more often than I might normally. Open to suggestions if anyone thinks there are better chains to go for ...but I thought DID were supposed to be alright?


Sent from my Mi A2 using Tapatalk

 

[670cc]

I see a partial chain model in your photo and it looks like it may be a VX2. I use that chain on my NC and I’d guess I get around 15,000 miles average on a VX2. They usually fail on me with clanging and banging due to excessive tight links, but I have never seen the o-rings split out like that, except perhaps on a link or two at the end of life. My approach is that the less you mess with your chain, the less gunk you spray on it, and the less you clean it, the longer it will last

At first I was going to say right away, “excessive aggressive cleaning”, but you say that’s not the case. That makes this an interesting, puzzling case. I wonder what the cause is? If it’s not from brush scrubbing, could it be chemically induced? I’m not familiar with that chain lube, so I have no experience with it.

 

[TacomaJD]

Yup, that's my thought; keep an eye, make sure there aren't any tight spots developing and lube it more often than I might normally. Open to suggestions if anyone thinks there are better chains to go for ...but I thought DID were supposed to be alright?


Sent from my Mi A2 using Tapatalk

Without any detailed research and just from prior knowledge, if it were me I'd probably try an RK chain. DID and RK both are supposedly good manufacturers, but if one didn't work good, maybe the other will.

 

[rippin209]

For the busted o-ring my first assumption would be not properly aligned (I've done that myself and had the chain stretched and tight within 6,000 miles) but it looks like your chain is aligned well, so I'm thinking road grime, it would have to be pretty fine, small grain sand or dusty dirt roads?

There's at least one thread on chain oilers on the forum, I've got a Tutoro oiler and would definitely recommend getting one

 

[Jt105]

You have pieces of the o-rings sticking out of the chain. Can you examine the material and see if it is flexible or stiff? Maybe take a piece, clean it and examine it for small cracks?
If you have many o-rings like this, it could be age (old stock eBay chain) or it could be chemically induced by drying out the rubber material.

Perhaps choose different chain cleaners and lubricants when you put on your next chain.

JT

 

[kalifornia]

did the chain have white lube on it when you took it out of the box? could be that chain was discovered in the bottom of a parts box that had been sitting in a scorching hot warehouse in southeast asia for 18 years. Could be the machine rivetiing the links was slightly out of spec that day. If the links are free and the barrels are spinning freely I'de ride the crap out of it. O ring smo ring

 

[showkey]

Chain maintenance is one of those forum HOT topics. There at least 20 other chain threads with maybe a 1000 posts.

The modern oring motorcycle chain can easily achieve 20,000-30,000 miles with minimal maintenance and care. Oring chains was the best thing to happen to chains in the last 50 years .......as far as increased longevity and decreasing maintenance and cleaning.

Light lubrication every 300-500 miles with chain lube of your choice.
Light cleaning with a rag with WD40 or kerosene is one way of cleaning. Depends on use and location but cleaning might be done every 1000-5000 miles. There are many cleaning systems DIY and for purchase. What ever system you choose the importance of not disturbing the factory oring seals and factory grease is critical.

Soaking the oring chain in kerosene is NOT recommended.........any thing that washes or dilutes the sealed grease in the chain is not good.

Typical manufacture instruction:
https://www.didchain.com/chainMaintenance.html

RK Excel Maintenance
Maintenance | Products | RK JAPAN

 

[TacomaJD]

Chain maintenance is one of those forum HOT topics. There at least 20 other chain threads with maybe a 1000 posts.

The modern oring motorcycle chain can easily achieve 20,000-30,000 miles with minimal maintenance and care. Oring chains was the best thing to happen to chains in the last 50 years .......as far as increased longevity and decreasing maintenance and cleaning.

Light lubrication every 300-500 miles with chain lube of your choice.
Light cleaning with a rag with WD40 or kerosene is one way of cleaning. Depends on use and location but cleaning might be done every 1000-5000 miles. There are many cleaning systems DIY and for purchase. What ever system you choose the importance of not disturbing the factory oring seals and factory grease is critical.

Soaking the oring chain in kerosene is NOT recommended.........any thing that washes or dilutes the sealed grease in the chain is not good.

Typical manufacture instruction:
https://www.didchain.com/chainMaintenance.html

RK Excel Maintenance
Maintenance | Products | RK JAPAN

It's not recommended by companies that coincidentally sell chain cleaners for the chains they sell... Although it used to be.

Someone copied and pasted manufacturer's recommendations on how to clean various chain brands on a Ducati forum back in 2014. Think the properties of kerosene chain cleaning has changed that much in 5 yrs? Those recommendations look a little different than the recommendations on their sites today. One blatantly says not to use kerosene, the others recommend it or don't mention it. See bottom of post.

By theory, kerosene shouldn't penetrate the o ring seal if they are functioning properly, although WD40 could. If the seals aren't functioning properly, kerosene will be the least of your worries, as road grime, dirt, dust, water, etc will work their way into where the factory grease is while riding....and stay there.

I also was not meaning to drop the chain in a vat of kerosene and check back in a week either. Do some research, it is certainly not uncommon to clean o ring chains liberally with kerosene. You can spray it on, wiping away, get most but not all of the grime off, or you can take the chain off, submerge it in kerosene for a few minutes, jostle it around a bit so debris and grime loosens and lets go, clean gently with toothbrush in the kerosene, let dry, reinstall, and lubricate it.

The difference is like trying to clean a stain off a shirt by spraying something on it and wiping it, or simply throwing it in the washer.

If you done this every week, there may be ill effects. If done once every year or two depending on how often you ride, it's hard for me to see it really doing any premature harm to the chain.





2014 post from Duc forum:


EK chain:
Do not use harsh solvents or chemicals, such as gasoline or benzene. EK recommends using a biodegradable degreaser with a soft (non-wire) bristle brush or clean cloth for removing dirt. Use kerosene (paraffin oil) if necessary, let dry and lubricate immediately within 10 minutes.
http://www.ekchain.com/install.htm

RK Chain:
Q How should I maintain my O-ring chain?
A. Doing routine maintenance on any chain is a crucial step to getting the maximum wearlife out of your chain. You should clean and check its adjustment every 400 miles (sooner if the chain gets excessively dirty). Use formulated O-ring chain cleaner or other similar product to keep dirt from building up around link plates and rollers. Don’t use a wire brush or pressure washer. Lubing an O-Ring chain is vital for maximum wearlife. All RK O-Ring chains are injected at the factory with a lifetime supply of internal lubricant. The purpose of an O-Ring lube is to keep the chain from rusting and the O-rings from drying out. We recommend RK special formula O-Ring Chain Lube because it is a non-aerosol, specifically formulated to stick the chain, yet not attract excessive dirt.
Welcome to RK Excel America - FAQ

Regina:
If the chain is not too dirty, the operation of lubrication is normally sufficient to clean the chain.
When the accumulation of dirt on the chain (sand, mud, asphalt particles or other foreign materials) is excessive, the chain must be washed with a brush and kerosene. After washing, the chain has to be dried immediately with a jet of compressed air.
After off-road use, when the dirt built-up is heavy, wash the chain with a water jet, then dry it immediately with compressed air.
Avoid the use of steam, gasoline or solvents.
When cleaning O-Ring chains, avoid the use of hard brushes or other methods that could damage the rubber O-Rings (compressed air should be kept at 50 cm/2 ft distance minimum).
After washing, immediately lubricate the chain as explained in the next chapter.
http://www.reginachain.it/eng/use_an...how_to03.shtml

Tsubaki:
To clean your Tsubaki chain, it is first necessary to raise the motorcycle on its centre stand with the engine off and the transmission in neutral. Then rotate the rear wheel of the motorcycle (using care to keep your fingers away from the sprockets and chain), spray a moisture displacement lubricant to one side of the chain. After 2 or 3 full revolutions, switch sides and repeat. In this manner you have floated the dirt off the chain and now you need to wipe off the chain with a clean cloth to remove the excess lubricant and dirt residue. Never use a flammable solvent such as gasoline, benzine or kerosene. Additionally, never use water, detergents, steam cleaner or a coarse brush as these damage the chain.
Home

Diamond Chain:
O-ring chains may be cleaned externally by washing in kerosene. Do not use
any other cleaning agent or the O-rings may be damaged. When cleaning O-ring chain, clean only the external areas of the chain.
Do not attempt to force kerosene into the pin-bush cavity.
For chains which are still usable, soak them in SAE 40 or 50 automotive engine oil (without additives).
Flexing the chain in oil will assure greater penetration of lubricant. Inspect
and clean sprockets.
http://www.diamondchain.co.uk/usr_do...ycle_chain.pdf

WD-40 is not a good cleaner for your chain.
For two reasons:

1) WD-40 contains cleaning solutions that will interfere with whatever lubricant you choose to (TRY AND) apply afterwards.


Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Jt105]

If the links are free and the barrels are spinning freely I'de ride the crap out of it. O ring smo ring

I agree.

The chain is not bad until it is. Keep it lubed. Ride it until you see it start to get stiff links.

JT

 

[DirtFlier]

Most or all DID chains have "DID" stamped on the side plates.

 

[Paulplex]

Thanks for all of your comments here guys, much appreciated. It is indeed a DID VX2 chain and I subscribe to the philosophy of leaving alone; I'd check tension every 500 miles or so, potentially lubing if it needed it - but often not every time as it looked clean and well lubricated.

The broken O-rings aren't cracked that I can tell, the couple that I've pulled free from the link - but did break easily as I handled them. I suspect old stock, personally - and I'm planning on ordering a replacement from the Honda dealer to fit. However, as my rides aren't typically too long - 20 miles to work, the same home - I'm checking the chain after each ride, to ensure it's not developing any tight spots or the like. I'll keep doing that, and over lubricating it until I can be bothered to fit a replacement.

Still - sprockets from eBay, sure: I think chains are better to source from a known and more reliable retailer...

 

[Jt105]

My guess is that if you don’t ride in the rain, that chain should last quite a while if you keep it lubricated.

JT

 

[Ruggybuggy]

My 2014 has over 40,000 kilometer on it and I'm still running the original chain and sprockets. Most of the miles have been from very long tours I've taken and commuting. I clean often with WD40 or varsol and lubes after.

 

[showkey]

My guess is that if you don’t ride in the rain, that chain should last quite a while if you keep it lubricated.

JT

There are many documents, articles, forums discussions and riders that say........”lube just enough to keep the rust away”

 

[Jt105]

There are many documents, articles, forums discussions and riders that say........”lube just enough to keep the rust away”

I believe the issue is too much lube gathers abrasive dirt and grime and causes faster wear. Also, extra lube results in nasty fling all over the rear wheel.

JT