Question Trickle Charger on a Power Bank?

[khanrahan]

Hi all,

Thanks in advance.

Does anyone have experience using a trickle charger plugged into something like a Goal Zero power bank or similar? RAVPower PD Pioneer power bank looks interesting too.

I have indoor/garage/unheated parking for my 2012 NC700X but no wall socket available. I ride all winter in the Northeast, but sometimes it can be a 3 week stretch between rides due to weather and/or life. Getting tired of taking the battery in and out all winter to charge upstairs in my apartment. Hoping I could just schlep the power bank inside every couple weeks to recharge it, then put it back.

I can jump it with a Scosche pack, but then the engine light flashes during the ride due to low voltage. Not comfortable riding like that.

Related, just got a brand new Yuasa battery. Still need to pursue a trickle charger situation.

Thanks again

 

[670cc]

Why are you taking the battery out and why does it need charging? Do you have a parasitic load drawing down your battery between rides? Or are your rides really short whereas the battery doesn’t get recharged? I keep my NC in an unheated building, which actually helps reduce battery self discharge. It can sit a month between winter rides and there has never been a problem encountering a weak battery. Something seems strange about your situation.

I would expect a Yuasa battery in good condition, in an NC stored in a cold area, with no parasitic load, to last three months with no need for a charge. If it’s really cold, and if the negative terminal was disconnected, it could hold a full charge even longer, perhaps easily 6 months.

 

[lootzyan]

Using an AC power bank to charge your motorcycle battery sounds like an interesting idea, especially in your situation. I admit that so far I have had no reason to be familiar with such an option. For many years I've been using a DC only power bank to charge my phone or tablet while traveling, that's all.
If the battery discharge is not too low, I don't see a problem that you can't use a good quality power bank (if it has an AC outlet). That is, if the measured battery voltage is above 12.5V, which corresponds to approximately 70% of a full charge, and if you use a recommended charger such as the Yuasa YUA1AMPCH 12V 1-Amp Battery Charger, charging this way for 5-8 hours should not be a problem.
If I were considering such options for myself, I would probably look for a power station with a larger capacity than the 20000-25600mAh you mentioned. You would certainly also need to consider what effect a low temperature (like in your garage) has on the lithium-based batteries used in most power banks today.

 

[davidc83]

I agree with 670cc, 3 weeks should have no effect on the battery unless you have an accessory draining power. I rode my NC the other day and it had been sitting at least 3 weeks and it started right up. My little Klx 250 started today after sitting 3 weeks....not as easy but it isn't efi...it is carb and petcock but started on 3rd grind....

 

[itsmenc700]

Also IF you did have a draining item on your bike and it cant survive 3 weeks, instead of bringing the battery inside, just remove the negative battery connection.
Simple!
And if your battery cant sit for 3 weeks like this and be functional, then you need a new battery.

 

[khanrahan]

Thanks all. Disconnecting the negative lead is a great tip! Will adopt this during winter.

There are no accessories installed (lights, warmers, nada). Not even a SAE lead on the battery. Though.... I am the third owner... perhaps there is something dodgy in there from one of the others. I can google it but if I anyone has a good link about sniffing out parasitic load, would appreciate.

I have never had luck with letting it sit for over a month. I would say thats the limit I have experienced. Interesting to hear I should expect 3 months. Might try to take multimeter readings every week to see how it graphs.

Thanks again all!

 

[lootzyan]

...Disconnecting the negative lead is a great tip! Will adopt this during winter....

Just ignore it. My bet is you don't have battery current leakage. If it were, the discharge of the battery is noticed after a relatively short time. Hours, not days or weeks.
I don't understand why the discussion moved to the topic of unexpected battery discharge. The original question was about alternative ways to charge the battery.
Recharging the battery is desirable and recommended, among others, also by the manufacturer. A healthy lead battery is a fully charged battery. This is due to the principle of its operation, the chemical processes that take place inside the battery. In addition, a fully charged battery is more resistant to low temperatures.
If anyone is interested, it is well explained in the YUASA Technical Manual: Powersports Batteries.
As for the battery current leakage test, it is described in the Service Manual.
It is true that there are some discrepancies between SM 2012 and e.g. SM 2015 in the maximum permissible value of current leakage. The older SM 2012 gives this value as 1.2 mA, and the later one as 0.2 mA.
For your peace of mind, I recommend doing this test at least once if you don't have anything connected directly to the battery.
In the last 10+ years here I only remember one time that a member here suspected current leakage due to a faulty alternator rectifier/regulator. But from reports in other forums it was mentioned that the problem was in older models of Honda motorcycles and before 2011 this problem was corrected by the new R/R module.

 

[itsmenc700]

OK re-read you first post - You have a new battery.
Is it / did you fully charge it before using it?
Since its new it should easily last a month without use and still start the engine.
If you have no power to run a changer then, as I posted, just remove the negative lead to the battery.
It should be ready to go when you're ready to ride.
If not your new battery is no good.

 

[670cc]

The sneakiest power drain I see on motorcycles like the NC is where someone has installed a 24x7 live USB port. They have unplugged their phone or whatever so they assume there is no longer a drain on the battery, but the voltage converter in the USB socket often continues to consume a small amount of power which drains the battery very slowly. Unlikely the issue in this case but worth noting as it can cause these symptoms of a battery that needs abnormally frequent charging attention.

 

[khanrahan]

UPDATE!

I fully charged the brand new Yuasa battery (manufacture date stamp 080921), placed it in the NC700X with only the pos terminal connected back in January. Today, connected that neg terminal and tried to start her up... nothing. Battery voltage read 10.8V (I unfortunately did not record the voltage after topping up at the time.)

 

[lootzyan]

...with only the pos terminal connected back in January. Today, connected that neg terminal and tried to start her up... nothing. Battery voltage read 10.8V ...

I previously advised you (in #7) to ignore the advice "to remove the negative battery connection" and that this should keep the battery working for a long time without recharging. Bad idea. But you've already proved it.
Nothing can replace proper battery charging.
The batteries are self-discharging whether they are connected or not. This is a repetition of a trivial, well-known fact. Lead batteries are more susceptible to this. The lower the capacity of the battery, the greater the problem. Therefore, car batteries can last longer without recharging.

 

[itsmenc700]

Posted that there is no power for a charger.
Best thing would be to take battery out and charge inside until needed.
IF the time period was to be over winter storage time!, then no you HAVE to take it inside!

Your post was for 3 weeks and at that time period you can leave it in and it will be fine. I have done that many times.

My recommendation for removal of the negative terminal was for IF there was some small drain in your system so that you could last those 3 weeks, NOT for winter storage!

 

[670cc]

Kin

UPDATE!

I fully charged the brand new Yuasa battery (manufacture date stamp 080921), placed it in the NC700X with only the pos terminal connected back in January. Today, connected that neg terminal and tried to start her up... nothing. Battery voltage read 10.8V (I unfortunately did not record the voltage after topping up at the time.)

It’s kind of odd that the battery was already 17 months old before you placed it in the NC. I have to wonder under what conditions it was stored during that interval. Could it already have been damaged by being allowed or caused to deeply discharge?

Temperature plays a role in lead acid battery self discharge rates, but I would never expect your 3 month layup with your battery disconnected to have resulted in this outcome. Something is unusual about this situation.

 

[khanrahan]

Sorry this has gone so off-topic. Will prob start a new thread.

@lootzyan - I just thought I would give it a try.
@670cc - This battery was sold as new to me in January 2023 from High Tech Battery Solutions.

Charged overnight on a battery tender junior, mounted in the bike today, voltage reads 12.2V with no load, a couple failed starts later, take a reading of 11.7V with no load. With load, it read 9.7V

Now Im starting to think the tender is not fully topping up my batteries, maybe my tender went bad. Have had same issues with 2 separate batteries, just process of elimination I should move on to charging apparatus.

 

[lootzyan]

...Now Im starting to think the tender is not fully topping up my batteries, maybe my tender went bad. Have had same issues with 2 separate batteries, just process of elimination I should move on to charging apparatus.

As I assumed the battery was not properly activated.
You may be able to get some battery life after at least a 12 hour charge.
I highly recommend the original YUASA YUA1AMPCH 12V 1-Amp charger. It used to cost around $34. Now $61 on Amazon. This charger is specifically designed to charge this type of battery.
If the battery has been deeply discharged, some chargers may have trouble starting charging. Here's the trick. First connect such a battery to a well-charged car battery for a few hours and then continue charging with the charger. If you get an average of 12.5-12.7V after charging it for hours (and resting for about 1 hour before you measure the battery voltage) you may be able to use this battery for several years.
If you have a lot of trouble removing the battery from your motorcycle, consider using quick disconnect cable connections. But I can't recommend what to use. I don't use these types of connections.

 

[itsmenc700]

A battery "tender" or trickle charger is not used to bring a deeply discharged battery back to life.
You need a proper charger, not a car charger it would be to powerful, to do that.
A trickle charger is to keep your battery topped up at all times.
12.2 volts might be the best this battery will get!!

 

[670cc]

As I assumed the battery was not properly activated.
You may be able to get some battery life after at least a 12 hour charge.
I highly recommend the original YUASA YUA1AMPCH 12V 1-Amp charger. It used to cost around $34. Now $61 on Amazon. This charger is specifically designed to charge this type of battery.
If the battery has been deeply discharged, some chargers may have trouble starting charging. Here's the trick. First connect such a battery to a well-charged car battery for a few hours and then continue charging with the charger. If you get an average of 12.5-12.7V after charging it for hours (and resting for about 1 hour before you measure the battery voltage) you may be able to use this battery for several years.
If you have a lot of trouble removing the battery from your motorcycle, consider using quick disconnect cable connections. But I can't recommend what to use. I don't use these types of connections.

While I totally agree with all the corrective steps you recommend, I would not say the battery was not properly activated. The Yuasa YTZ12S battery is factory activated, meaning filled with electrolyte, sealed and charged at the factory. However, it would seem likely the battery was not properly maintained after activation. Yuasa recommends charge maintenance 1 month after activation. I still have to wonder if the seller just parked it on a shelf it the box for an extended period before shipping.

From Yuasa:​

Learn How to Activate An AGM Battery​

Yuasa Absorbent Glass Mat (AGM) Batteries leave the factory either Factory Activated or Bottle Supplied. It’s important to know the difference between the two states and what it means for your Yuasa Battery:​

Related Read: What is an AGM Battery?

How Batteries Leave the Factory​

• Factory Activated (FA) – the battery is filled with electrolyte, sealed and charged at the factory. These batteries if not used within a month must be maintained. If the voltage drops below 12.4 these batteries must be boosted up to full charge.
• Bottle Supplied (BS) – dry AGM batteries are shipped with the electrolyte stored in a plastic container. The battery is filled with electrolyte from the container when it’s ready to be activated. AGM dry batteries have a shelf life of 5 years from the manufacturer as long as they remain sealed. A proper seal for AGM batteries means a foil sealing strip is in place on the battery without damage or flaw. Once a battery is unsealed, it should be activated, charged, and installed. If the battery is unsealed, the plates will begin to oxidize, making it more difficult to charge later.

Activating an AGM battery (BS) is simple and differs from the activation of a Conventional battery. Non-activated AGM batteries can be stored for long periods of time as long as they are kept in a cool, dry place and out of direct sunlight.

 

[lootzyan]

... The Yuasa YTZ12S battery is factory activated, meaning filled with electrolyte, sealed and charged at the factory. ...

I have purchased two types of Yuasa batteries from Amazon in the last year (one was a YTZ12S) and in both cases I had to activate the batteries myself.
In #10 OP says his battery had a "manufacture date stamp 080921". Was it already activated I don't know? But it would have to be on the shelf for more than a year before being sold.

 

[670cc]

I have purchased two types of Yuasa batteries from Amazon in the last year (one was a YTZ12S) and in both cases I had to activate the batteries myself.
In #10 OP says his battery had a "manufacture date stamp 080921". Was it already activated I don't know? But it would have to be on the shelf for more than a year before being sold.

You’re saying the YTZ12S was a Yuasa genuine battery and it came with a separate acid pack? That is interesting, as Yuasa’s web site specs factory activated for that model. https://www.yuasabatteries.com/batt...ar=2012&vehicle_model=nc700x&vehicle_id=28842. I will need to see what I get next time for a YTZ12S. I do know the YTZ in my scooter was factory activated, while the YTX series for my Goldwing was shipped with acid separate, both just as the Yuasa website states.

So then the question would be, did the OP install the acid, then seal the battery in January?

 

[lootzyan]

You’re saying the YTZ12S was a Yuasa genuine battery...

Sorry, I checked again. It was Yuasa YTZ14S Battery.
I'm far away from home.