Rear wheel doesn't spin freely on DCT - normal?

[AP1]

While I was lubricating the chain on my NC700X DCT today, I noticed that the rear wheel does not spin freely. There's quite a bit of drag. It takes a fair amount of effort to turn the wheel. Is that normal?

That's in contrast to my Honda XR250L that spins much easier. Not as free wheeling as my bicycles, but easier than my NC.

I look forward to learning whether the symptom on my NC is normal and learning why it happens.

Thanks.

 

[Blackhawkgeo]

I don't know if this is the case, but my DCT was the same way until I realized that I was still in gear when I turned off the bike. When I turned the ignition on (before I hit the starter button), I heard a small click and the neutral light came on. Then the wheel turned easier. Once I realized that, I have not had a problem since.

 

[silverhound]

I have not noticed any increased resistance on my wife's DCT while lubing the chain beyond that of any other bike I've had.

 

[bduffey]

And check and make sure that your parking brake lever is fully disengaged.

 

[hojo]

+ on putting the bike in NEUTRAL before you turn the ignition off, it makes a HUGE difference. Not only that, if you push the bike without putting it in Neutral, it's harder on the engine.

 

[BerndM]

I think ALL wet clutches have a certain amount of "sticktion".
Our DCT's have TWO clutches, so I suppose it stands to reason that there would be about 2 X the "sticktion" of a standard single clutch.
I could be wrong though

 

[hojo]

I think ALL wet clutches have a certain amount of "sticktion".
Our DCT's have TWO clutches, so I suppose it stands to reason that there would be about 2 X the "sticktion" of a standard single clutch.
I could be wrong though

I won't argue with you, I have no clue. I do know that I can feel a big difference when I spin the wheel after I shut the engine off with the bike in NEUTRAL vs if I shut the bike off while still in D/S.

 

[ST13Fred]

The bike goes to 1st when stopped and neutral when shut off. But I've rotated the rear wheel (on center stand) w/the bike still in gear (wheel drag).
The wheel will spin freely, like a manual trans, when in neutral. My bike, on occasion, will go to auto mode while riding in manual mode; I simply toggle back to manual.

I think all these glitches are just 'normal' computer hick-ups and nothing to be alarmed about.
Being an intermittent occurrence, I chock it up to software directing hardware to do abnormal things on occasion. Blue skies, green lights.

 

[AP1]

I don't know if this is the case, but my DCT was the same way until I realized that I was still in gear when I turned off the bike. When I turned the ignition on (before I hit the starter button), I heard a small click and the neutral light came on. Then the wheel turned easier. Once I realized that, I have not had a problem since.

+ on putting the bike in NEUTRAL before you turn the ignition off, it makes a HUGE difference. Not only that, if you push the bike without putting it in Neutral, it's harder on the engine.

BINGO! That fixed it! When I put the transmission into Neutral before turning off the ignition and then spun the wheel, it turned much easier -- almost as easy as my XR250L. To confirm the solution, I tried again, but this time I left the transmission in Drive, turned off the ignition and then spun the wheel -- much harder, just like it was before I tried this solution.

YAY! Thank you Blackhawkgeo and hojo!

For reference, I've never put the bike in neutral before turning the ignition off. Plus, I always noticed that little click when I turned on the ignition. I never put the two together.

So, lesson learned. Put the bike in Neutral before turning it off.

I love this forum!

 

[ST13Fred]

So the DCT stays in gear on shut down (unless it is put in neutral before shut down) and goes to neutral on start up. That explains a lot.
I back my bike up a ramp into the garage and will be putting it in neutral before shut down!
I agree, I love this forum!

 

[hojo]

Yes, it somehow stays in either gear or pseduo gear. I first noticed that when I cleaned a friends chain, his rear wheel rolled 10x easier than mine. Then by a fluke I saw where someone here on the forum mentioned that the bike should not be turned off in gear so I asked a friend at work that works on old cars for fun. He said that if the bike is shut off when in gear, (if I can explain this correctly) and you push the bike, oil is not going to be pumped yet the pistons will be moving and over time, can damage the engine.

 

[ST13Fred]

... if the bike is shut off when in gear, (if I can explain this correctly) and you push the bike, oil is not going to be pumped yet the pistons will be moving and over time, can damage the engine.

W/no ignition or fuel nothing is going on if the engine is rolling over, so no harm no foul. Just a little more effort to push/pull. On 2nd thought, I do not think the engine is actually 'rolling' if in gear.

 

[hojo]

W/no ignition or fuel nothing is going on when the engine is rolling over @ very few revs, so no harm no foul. Just a little more effort to push/pull.

Good, but if I have to push a moto, I need all the help I can get

 

[670cc]

Yes, it somehow stays in either gear or pseduo gear. I first noticed that when I cleaned a friends chain, his rear wheel rolled 10x easier than mine. Then by a fluke I saw where someone here on the forum mentioned that the bike should not be turned off in gear so I asked a friend at work that works on old cars for fun. He said that if the bike is shut off when in gear, (if I can explain this correctly) and you push the bike, oil is not going to be pumped yet the pistons will be moving and over time, can damage the engine.

I know I can't push my manual NC while it's in gear. The mechanical disadvantage in first gear is far to great to be able to turn the crankshaft by pushing the bike. Maybe with the spark plugs out you could do it, but not with them in. Those same principals would hold true on the DCT. Something else afoot would need to explain it.

 

[hojo]

I know I can't push my manual NC while it's in gear. The mechanical disadvantage in first gear is far to great to be able to turn the crankshaft by pushing the bike. Maybe with the spark plugs out you could do it, but not with them in. Those same principals would hold true on the DCT. Something else afoot would need to explain it.

I can push the bike while it's in 'gear', and to be honest, I don't think I'd even notice a difference when pushing the bike if I put it in Neutral (DCT models) or not, it's when I go to spin the tire to clean the chain or get the valve stem where I need it to check the pressure is when the difference is like night and day.

 

[670cc]

I can push the bike while it's in 'gear', and to be honest, I don't think I'd even notice a difference when pushing the bike if I put it in Neutral (DCT models) or not, it's when I go to spin the tire to clean the chain or get the valve stem where I need it to check the pressure is when the difference is like night and day.

Does it make a difference which way the wheel spins? Most often you would roll the bike forward, but I think most people commonly turn the wheel backwards by hand when lubing the chain. Don't know why it would matter, but I was just curious.

 

[AP1]

I know I can't push my manual NC while it's in gear. The mechanical disadvantage in first gear is far to great to be able to turn the crankshaft by pushing the bike. Maybe with the spark plugs out you could do it, but not with them in. Those same principals would hold true on the DCT. Something else afoot would need to explain it.

I can definitely push my DCT when it's in "gear" -- based on turning off the ignition without switching to Neutral. I've been doing that since I bought it last summer. It rolls reasonably well. However, when I put the bike in Neutral before turning the ignition off, it rolls MUCH easier than before. I was amazed.

As a side note, I cannot push my XR250L when it's in gear and the clutch lever is not pulled in. It's completely locked up, like any standard manual transmission I know of. So, the DCT being in "gear" is definitely not the same as a manual motorcycle in gear.

By the way, it doesn't matter if I spin the wheel forward or backward -- it's just as easy both ways.

 

[670cc]

Then my conclusion is possibly that the default power-off position of a DCT clutch is "disengaged". That means when in gear, you can roll it or spin the wheel but you have to overcome the drag of the disengaged clutch plates. When in neutral, all gear sets freewheel in the transmission, so the clutch does not matter.

A manual transmission clutch defaults to "engaged" unless the lever is pulled, so it's a different animal.

 

[ST13Fred]

roll it or spin the wheel but you have to overcome the drag of the disengaged clutch plates. When in neutral, all gear sets freewheel in the transmission, so the clutch does not matter.
A manual transmission clutch defaults to "engaged" unless the lever is pulled, so it's a different animal.

That makes more sense than my comment of 'rolling over' a clutch engaged engine by pushing/pulling the bike. Can't happen. The DCT pistons are motionless when the bike is pushed while in 'gear', I'm sure, so your theory may be correct.
My Rokon has a 3 speed centrifugal clutch (w/torque converter). Putting it in neutral does disengage something in the transmission.

 

[AP1]

To confirm the assumptions about the DCT clutch being engaged or disengaged when you turn the engine off...

The owners manual on pg. 34 states, "If you turn the ignition switch to the OFF position when the motorcycle is in gear, the engine will shut off with the clutch disengaged."

Now we know.