Honda NT1100

[670cc]

Agree. Huge differences in weight and cost...

I can't imagine anyone comparing the NT1100 as a replacement to the Goldwing. Honda isn't.

halfSpinDoctor said, "Rather, it fills in a nice gap for people who want a bike with some decent power that travels well without the weight of the Goldwing." In response to that, I replied that the Goldwing offers passenger accommodations that the NT does not, thereby suggesting that even though the NT may travel well, it is not a realistic two-up machine. That is the extent of my comparison. No need to take it any further than that. I would agree that the NT and the Goldwing are not at all comparable machines.

 

[mzflorida]

This is a very good conversation. Thanks for all of the unique perspectives everyone is contributing. One of the things I really like about this forum is that confirmation bias will never be present!

I woke up thinking about this bike today. I really like the way it looks. But, I was excited about the 21 750X too and it is not the right bike for me.

Im not buying until next year, so lots of time to read and learn.

 

[halfSpinDoctor]

I agree - excellent conversation! I'm loving everything about the NT, but hearing input from people who have different use cases / priorities than me, and it makes me think more critically about what I actually will want for my next bike!

 

[bigbird]

I've said it before, but I'll say it again for those new to the 1100 Unicam motor.
The 1100 is a nice enough motor, but be prepared for large maintenance costs when it comes to valve inspection.
The exhaust valves are adjusted by screw and nut, just like the NC750.
But the intakes are direct cam action with shimmied adjustment.
If the intakes need shimming, the exhaust side rocker arms must be removed in order to remove the single cam for shimming.
That isn't all that crazy, but the fairing, gas tank, and radiator must be removed to access the cylinder head.
On the Africa Twin, there's 2 radiators to remove. But it looks like only 1 on the NT1100.
Valve adjustment is scheduled every 16k due to the rocker armed exhaust side.
If using a dealer, this would be an expensive valve inspection, and if adjustment on the intake side is necessary, be prepared for a very large bill.
This is just an FYI post, not looking for any arguments.

 

[670cc]

I've said it before, but I'll say it again for those new to the 1100 Unicam motor.
The 1100 is a nice enough motor, but be prepared for large maintenance costs when it comes to valve inspection.
The exhaust valves are adjusted by screw and nut, just like the NC750.
But the intakes are direct cam action with shimmied adjustment.
If the intakes need shimming, the exhaust side rocker arms must be removed in order to remove the single cam for shimming.
That isn't all that crazy, but the fairing, gas tank, and radiator must be removed to access the cylinder head.
On the Africa Twin, there's 2 radiators to remove. But it looks like only 1 on the NT1100.
Valve adjustment is scheduled every 16k due to the rocker armed exhaust side.
If using a dealer, this would be an expensive valve inspection, and if adjustment on the intake side is necessary, be prepared for a very large bill.
This is just an FYI post, not looking for any arguments.

I’m not arguing, but seeking information. While the shim adjustment may be a headache, do you have any idea how often the shim adjustment actually gets required on the 1100 engine? My Goldwing 1800 has shims for valve adjustments, but each check so far has been in spec. The earliest in my ‘Wing’s life that any shims may need changing is at 96,000 miles, but if that next check is good, the earliest I will possibly change any shims is at 128,000 miles.

I wouldn’t get too worried about shims if they rarely need to be changed. But then maybe on the 1100, they do need constant adjustment. Anyone know?

 

[bigbird]

I’m not arguing, but seeking information. While the shim adjustment may be a headache, do you have any idea how often the shim adjustment actually gets required on the 1100 engine? My Goldwing 1800 has shims for valve adjustments, but each check so far has been in spec. The earliest in my ‘Wing’s life that any shims may need changing is at 96,000 miles, but if that next check is good, the earliest I will possibly change any shims is at 128,000 miles.

I wouldn’t get too worried about shims if they rarely need to be changed. But then maybe on the 1100, they do need constant adjustment. Anyone know?

 

[bigbird]

The Goldwing engine generations 1 through 5 cannot be compared to the 1100. The valvetrain relies on much lower spring rates as well as much lower rpm operation. You can actually compress the GL 1800 springs with your fingers. You can compare the gen 6 Goldwing much more so to the 1100. Both are Unicam engines, which means the same split valve operation method. The adjustment interval is shorter than the older 1800 engine, and owners of the ‘18 and newer ‘Wings are reporting the need for some exhaust valve adjustment but little to no intake adjustment, which would be expected. I agree that older Goldwings need very little to no shim adjustment on their SOHC setup.
The fly in the ointment is that the exhaust rocker arm clearance inspection needs the complete teardown of fairing, gas tank, and radiator. All that is skipped on the Goldwing engine, thank goodness.

 

[670cc]

The Goldwing engine generations 1 through 5 cannot be compared to the 1100. The valvetrain relies on much lower spring rates as well as much lower rpm operation. You can compress the GL 1800 springs with your fingers. You can compare the gen 6 Goldwing much more so to the 1100. Both are Unicam engines, which means the same split valve operation method. The adjustment interval is shorter than the older 1800 engine, and owners of the ‘18 and newer ‘Wings are reporting the need for some exhaust valve adjustment but little to no intake adjustment, which would be expected. I agree that older Goldwings need very little to no shim adjustment on their SOHC setup.

So, based on the Goldwing Unicam’s need for little to no intake shim adjustment, do we expect little to no shim adjustment needed on the AT or NT 1100 engines?

 

[dduelin]

Shim under bucket valves have been used in Honda motorcycles for at least 29 years in low, medium, and high output engines. The sky has not fallen. In the V4 ST world, many owners never check them and still roll up over 100,000 miles. I'm not like that and follow service interval recommendations more or less - at least until 100,000 miles. By then I have a long history of clearances and tendencies to remain static or close up. Most shimmed valves never need adjustment which is one large advantage of them.

Sure, there is more service time involved with checking and/or adjusting them compared to stone age screw & lock nut tappets but the advantages of shim under bucket valve trains far outweigh the disadvantages. That's why valve trains like that of NC are an anachronism in 2021. At least the AT and NT have only half their valves operated by shim under bucket.

 

[670cc]

Shim under bucket valves have been used in Honda motorcycles for at least 29 years in low, medium, and high output engines. The sky has not fallen. In the V4 ST world, many owners never check them and still roll up over 100,000 miles. I'm not like that and follow service interval recommendations more or less - at least until 100,000 miles. By then I have a long history of clearances and tendencies to remain static or close up. Most shimmed valves never need adjustment which is one large advantage of them.

Sure, there is more service time involved with checking and/or adjusting them compared to stone age screw & lock nut tappets but the advantages of shim under bucket valve trains far outweigh the disadvantages. That's why valve trains like that of NC are an anachronism in 2021. At least the AT and NT have only half their valves operated by shim under bucket.

I’m all for shimmed valves if it means adjustments every, say, 100,000 miles. Screw and locknut is good for the backyard mechanic, but the recommended inspection frequency is absurd. I guess with the NT Unicam, like you say, you get a 50-50 package.

 

[dduelin]

I’m all for shimmed valves if it means adjustments every, say, 100,000 miles. Screw and locknut is good for the backyard mechanic, but the recommended inspection frequency is absurd. I guess with the NT Unicam, like you say, you get a 50-50 package.

It's almost a point of pride for certain Goldwing and ST100/ST1300 owners to say "I've got XX,XXX miles on my bike and I've never even checked the valves!"

 

[670cc]

It's almost a point of pride for certain Goldwing and ST100/ST1300 owners to say "I've got XX,XXX miles on my bike and I've never even checked the valves!"

Not even checking the valves = very bad
Checked valves, but need no adjustment = very good

 

[TNHoosier]

The NT looks interesting but I think I will wait a couple of years to see how it shakes out. I am down to seat and luggage on my '21 NC, I don't want to start all over with a brand new model.

 

[bigbird]

So, based on the Goldwing Unicam’s need for little to no intake shim adjustment, do we expect little to no shim adjustment needed on the AT or NT 1100 engines?

I would expect so.

 

[mzflorida]

Again, great conversation and appreciated. BigBird and 670 both have good points. Personally, I don't care much about maintenance costs on motorcycles; and I am not suggesting that those potential expenses should be ignored regardless of how remote. I won't buy a German car because of the maintenance costs so I really do not know what I attribute my indifference to. Perhaps hobby vs. necessity.

 

[jeremyr62]

Over here the VFR800 VTEC engined bike had a very expensive valve clearance check at (I think) 32000 miles. I never owned this version but I did get the impression a lot of owners just never bothered and ran the engine on. They were plentiful so if bad stuff happened, you could always put another engine in. Not a bad strategy IMO.

 

[DirtFlier]

"....in the background they’re really working on something else totally new that advances motorcycle technology and features...670"

Sometimes doing that results in a sale flop and Honda has had plenty of those.

 

[Oldbear]

If it has a shaft drive and cruise control, I might just start obsessing over it instead of the FJR1300ES

What he said. Keep the weight down too please…

 

[melensdad]

The price appears to be nearly $18,000 for the DCT version. It does come with standard side cases, center stand, heated grips. But that seems pretty high for a bike without a Frunk? On the other hand, if the seat is comfy???

 

[670cc]

The price appears to be nearly $18,000 for the DCT version. It does come with standard side cases, center stand, heated grips. But that seems pretty high for a bike without a Frunk? On the other hand, if the seat is comfy???

Is the seat comfy? Haha. I read that as a rhetorical question.