Fuel economy and big is better in USA

[Mike Cash]

Wander off on all the tangents you wish, Jay, but 90% of Americans are not "poor".

You got some source that backs up that number? Or did you just reach shoulder-deep up your butt and pull it out?

I regret you are unable to understand the chart and how it shows the ludicrous nature of your assertion. Do you understand the difference between percent/percentile and average/median? Your comments give the impression you don't, which makes having a productive discussion an improbability.

Your nuclear reactor comment, by the way, was contemptible.

Maybe if you didn't farkle your bike you could go get your teeth worked on. Just an idea.

 

[OldJeff]

Wow.... you guys do know how to derail a thread

I downsized from a 1100 Sabre to the 670 NCX, loved my Sabre, but it started running like crap. It did mid 40s mpg, the NCX seems to stay in the mid 60s mpg, but I didn't buy it for that, altho it is a nice bonus. I bought the NCX to tour and with a few more farkles, it will be where I want. All for around 10k bucks. Handling and storage were the selling points for me.

 

[SergeantChuck]

I don't really want to get into this conversation but feel compelled to say something. I make it a point to not take sides which you could call being a coward but message boards and people on them are not very forgiving at times.

I'll just say this about the current conversation. I was in the army for 21 years. During that time I had the opportunity to visit Zimbabwe, Haiti, Iraq, Turkey, Bosnia, Macedonia, and parts of Central America. This is a sample of where I have been. Although people in those places are actual poor they do not know any better because that is how it has always been. They are actually POOR. A kind of poor that we cannot imagine. I could go into detail about things I’ve seen but I'm sure you can imagine. They have lived this way for their whole life and they are accustomed to. I'm curious at times if they even realize how poor they are.

I have lived in several states in the US too. Washington State, North Carolina, Tennessee, Louisiana, Texas, Michigan, Illinois, and Arkansas. I have seen lots of what I consider poor people in these states too. I often wonder how they can make it on $7 an hour. The cost of living in the US is so much more than that of the 3rd world countries you have to make a decent wage to get by. Many people are not making that. MANY.

Do people in the US deal with the same kind of poor as those in 3rd world countries? Not really. Are there lots of poor people in the US. Yes. When you consider our standard of living we do have a lot of poor people but it is a different standard of poor.

I'm just saying that Americans are used to a certain standard of living as are the people in 3rd world countries. It is two different levels of poor. I'm not sure I'm making sense. I'm somewhat agreeing with both people.

Sorry for taking it further off topic, Again.

 

[duk2n]

I filled my tank yesterday at 1.40€ per liter, currently conversion is US1.90 per litre

IMHO and honestly, if I was paying US0.77 per litre, probably I would own a Bultaco Pursang MK11 for my off-road trips, a Benelli Sei for fun and a Yamaha RD350 for even more fun and I would not care if they consume 20 liter per 100 km or whatever

As it is not the case, I'm very happy with my NC700XA

Fuel in Switzerland is around 1.85chf per liter or US$1.70 per litre?
It is about 30% more in EU countries, like Germany or Austria or Italy.

Besides, I am not talking about fuel economy or fuel prices.

My main question for this thread is:
Are US drivers / motorcyclists gas guzzlers (still)?

 

[Cyclerosis]

The Huffington Post | By Maxwell Strachan
Posted: 09/17/2013 10:10 am EDT | Updated: 09/17/2013 11:57 am EDT

The U.S. poverty rate was essentially unchanged at 15 percent in 2012, as roughly 46.5 million people were stuck living at or below the poverty line, the​

U.S. Census Bureau

reported Tuesday. This marks the second straight year that both the poverty rate and total number of people living in poverty were stuck at their current levels.

From the Associated Press:​

"It was the sixth straight year that the poverty rate had failed to improve, hurt by persistently high levels of unemployment after the housing bust."

So it's 15% instead of 90%?

 

[Naked_Duc]

I wouldn't say people in US just don't care about fuel economy. I think it has more to do with culture and activities which dictates the cars people drive. Post WW2 Europe had to be rebuilt and had to made smaller and fuel efficient transportations just to get by. Also lacking Abundant natural resources (crude oil) and lack of space, smaller and fuel efficient cars tend to fit the need of people. Even if people want to buy a large SUV, most wouldn't have room to park that thing.

In the post WW2 US, the economy was booming. Good jobs and good wages allowed people to spurge on cars. With the interstate highway systems, people wanted large cars to cruise the wide open roads. Gas was $0.25 a gallon and crude oil was coming out of everywhere. Fuel economy was only an after thought.

In addition, SUV and trucks are still very popular in the US. They are not used to just move people around. They are almost necessity for people's lifestyle. Towing campers, trailers, hauling things around. People in the US tend to be independent and self-reliant and they want a larger vehicle for that. But all that is changing slowly thru the generations.

My 2 cents

 

[Mike Cash]

So it's 15% instead of 90%?

The funniest part is that he failed to notice the article he used to back up his assertion got its numbers (which totally fail to back up his assertion) from the exact same source which he ranted about being so bogus and unreliable....the Census Bureau!

In one place he wants us to think the US government is shut down because people are poor....and in another place he would have us believe the government is rolling in dough by means of destroying the economy. Neither make sense, Jay, but at least pick ONE of those two diametrically opposite assertions and stick with it.

Kid Jay has got a lot to learn about critical thinking before he can join the conversation, it would appear.

By the way, Jay, I've never seen Fox News in my life.

 

[Hollow Road Rider]

I wouldn't say people in US just don't care about fuel economy. I think it has more to do with culture and activities which dictates the cars people drive. Post WW2 Europe had to be rebuilt and had to made smaller and fuel efficient transportations just to get by. Also lacking Abundant natural resources (crude oil) and lack of space, smaller and fuel efficient cars tend to fit the need of people. Even if people want to buy a large SUV, most wouldn't have room to park that thing.

In the post WW2 US, the economy was booming. Good jobs and good wages allowed people to spurge on cars. With the interstate highway systems, people wanted large cars to cruise the wide open roads. Gas was $0.25 a gallon and crude oil was coming out of everywhere. Fuel economy was only an after thought.

In addition, SUV and trucks are still very popular in the US. They are not used to just move people around. They are almost necessity for people's lifestyle. Towing campers, trailers, hauling things around. People in the US tend to be independent and self-reliant and they want a larger vehicle for that. But all that is changing slowly thru the generations.

My 2 cents

X2
Well said
TA

 

[Old Can Ride]

I'm proud of the fact that I am now Big, Short, Fat, and Ugly USA American. It was time consuming (took a lot of years) to get this Big, Short, Fat, and Ugly, and yes I consume a lot of fuel (love to eat, one of my favorite hobbies). As a Big, Short, Fat, Ugly USA American, they can not longer stuff me into those confined environments.



Now I can fly the big boys.


Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress

But they still will not let Nana Chou on the runway. Hurts her feeling.

But she does get to go with me a block over to visit my Galveston friends who died in Viet Nam.



Yesterday we met Wilie Pina at the memorial. I guess he saw me crying and came over to console me. Willie is the Bastrop County Commissioner, who is at a convention in Galveston. Willie told me he is going to build a memorial just like this one in Bastrop. I told Willie it could never be just like this one, because 3 of these fellows I played High School football with, one fellow worked with me on a 7th grade drafting project where we drew the 8 sided glass house that I personally hand built and still live in, and one was the best man at my wedding.

 

[Craig92DA9]

Fuel economy has always been important to me. Fuel in my town is near $4 a gallon (91 octane r+m/2). I prefer small 4cyl civics and integras. Good economy, good handling for FWD. Frankly I'm appalled at how our "small cars" keep growing in the states. Good example of this i think is the Subaru forester. It has always been their largest vehicle in size. A 2013 outback is bigger than a 2000 forester. I also wish that small diesel trucks were sold in the states like the old Toyota HiLux, for some reason only diesels that seem made to move mountains are sold here. I am 100% american, and i think bigger is better is foolish and short sighted, it may be true some of the time, but it is by no means a universal truth. I like small vehicles

 

[duk2n]

Is that fighter a Super Sabre?

View attachment 9040

 

[happy]

1. I cannot believe that someone who has INTERNET can be considered "under the poverty line".
2. I read many "good" historic reasons (which I knew beforehand) but I only wanted to see if the US people also knew them.
3. The thread is supposed to increase discussion and share knowledge, please don't bring knives and Tasers to this table.


Good, lets continue and we all have a nice day ya?

 

[Naked_Duc]

I think the culture (history), life style, and type of terrain affect our vehicle preference. Fuel economy aside, Americans prefer large cruisers (cars and motorcycles) that float over big wide open roads. Europeans prefers smaller vehicles with good handling to navigate the tight winding roads. A good example would be the 60's chopper vs. cafe racers. That preference also extends to auto racing that we watch - NASCAR and drag racing (big HP over straight or relatively straight course) vs. rally, touring cars, F1, MotoGP, WSBK, etc etch, all of which are compact racers with extraordinary handling over windy course and terrain.

US consumers doesn't have to be as fuel economy conscience when buying a car. The US has a lot of influence on world's oil prices that it purchases and it also has its domestic oil production. In addition, there is subsidies to keep the gas prices down. Unlike our UK counterparts, you can't help but to be super picky with fuel economy. There is gas price and gas guzzler taxes to worry about.

But all that is changing though, with the younger generation being more aware of non-renewable energy. Plus oil prices doubling in the past decade, people are picking compact, "European" style, cars over big heavy SUVs. Plus the government is mandating manufacturers to improve fuel economy, there are a lot more choices for consumers to pick. All the better. I can't imagine myself driving a SUV. The fact, that a 3 ton vehicle is used to move 1 or 2 person when you can do the same with a well designed car with 1/2 the weight, bothers me. You are wasting all that gas and money to move the car, and not the passengers. And I don't believe in hybrids... It's like buying organic food. But that's a different discussion.

 

[SlowSteve]

Worth pointing out a couple of things here.

UK gallons and US gallons are different. A US gallon is 21% smaller, so 30mpg in the US is more efficient than 30mpg in uk/Europe.

Next, US fuel is very low octane compared to European fuel. 91octane is a high end fuel, at least in Georgia where I visit. 99octane is the equivalent high end fuel in the UK. Like above, 30mpg from 91octane fuel is more efficient than 30mpg out of 99octane.

So.... Not apples to apples comparison at all.

That said, I figure I pay the equivalent of $8.04/ US gallon, in the UK using the same measurements as the US guys do.

All my US friends do complain about gas prices when they are paying 3.20-3.40, where as when I'm in the US I don't give a damn about doing 2,000 miles in a week because it feels so cheap to me.

Last thing I'd say is that vehicles in the US are changing..... The brands that don't really sell a lot outside of the US are pretty dire, both in terms of fuel economy and also, for some reason, quality (Lincoln for example.... I rented one that was giving me 15mpg and felt like a car from the 70's....). Ford is a good deal better on economy, because it uses the same car all over the world, and then the Asian cars are a step up again. I was getting 62mpg on freeways out of a Hyundai Tucson SUV last month in 4x4 mode and with the air con on.... That's almost as good as the NC700!!!!!!

The mix of what is on the road has definitely changed a lot, especially since 2008 and fuel efficient cars are a lot more common. Not sure whether this is because people care about economy more, or if they just like the style/features of the Asian cars, and the Asian makers have to fight on economy in other countries.

 

[670cc]

Next, US fuel is very low octane compared to European fuel. 91octane is a high end fuel, at least in Georgia where I visit. 99octane is the equivalent high end fuel in the UK. Like above, 30mpg from 91octane fuel is more efficient than 30mpg out of 99octane.

I'm not clear on where you're going with the octane comments. The numbers are different merely because the octane rating system is different in Europe vs. USA. Plus, octane has next to nothing to do with fuel economy, so it's moot in this discussion.

Greg

 

[SlowSteve]

Greg,

A lot of cars/bikes are designed to be usable at higher octane rating than available at the pumps, with the effect that all fuel then becomes a compromise.

A recent test in Bike magazine in the UK tested regular and high octane gas for fuel efficiency. For highly efficient bikes, like the NC, it added around 2% , which didn't make it worth it for the price. However, with more racy bikes - I think-I don't have it in front of me, it made a difference of 8% to the MPG, and it was worth paying the higher price for, which worked out at about 6%.

This was without any modifications to either of the bikes.

 

[670cc]

Greg,

A lot of cars/bikes are designed to be usable at higher octane rating than available at the pumps, with the effect that all fuel then becomes a compromise.

A recent test in Bike magazine in the UK tested regular and high octane gas for fuel efficiency. For highly efficient bikes, like the NC, it added around 2% , which didn't make it worth it for the price. However, with more racy bikes - I think-I don't have it in front of me, it made a difference of 8% to the MPG, and it was worth paying the higher price for, which worked out at about 6%.

This was without any modifications to either of the bikes.

I can't see how the octane rating of the fuel would make any difference whatsoever on a bike like the NC700X, especially one driven in an efficient manner. But, whatever, I guess this thread was about vehicles in general.

Greg

 

[jtkirk]

I have always been conscious of mileage/fuel costs. Mainly because I'm a cheap B@#$@#$. I got that way growing up in Arkansas in the Ozarks living in a four room house with my parents and grandparents with no running water or indoor plumbing. Make all the hillbilly jokes you want. It taught me the value of a $ and to make sure to get good quality for it. Something the gov't could learn. please don't start in on how good even the poorest here have it compared to the poor in other countries. The poor here have it good w/ cell phone, food, internet, etc. because the government gives it to them and you have one, really both, political party that is hell bent on bringing everyone down to the poor level and dependent on gov't so they can a) always have a ready made voting block of support and b) be able to control the population more easily. One day they might realize that you actually have to have you working class to tax to fund all the freebies for everyone else.

I got the NC primarily for it to save me money vs a bike that was already getting me 50 mpg. I don't do it for the environment, "sustainability" (god I hate that term), or any other wacko reason. It's purely for self interest.