Traffic controlled lights

[Therapy]

Last week I was rding my KLX250 home and was making a left off the highway. I sat there for two light cycles and decided to make my left, ive had trouble with this light before. Little did I know there was a cop coming up behind me as I made my left on the red. He was delayed at the light but finally caught up with me. I saw him coming so I started to pull over on the gravel shoulder. Instead of pulling behind me he sweaved his car in front of me blocking my path, jumps out of his car and yells at me "you ran the red light!". At this point I'm pretty ticked and yelled back "I know I ran the red light!". He was up for an aguement and yelled again "don't tell me you didnt run the light, I saw you". I again repeated that I had ran the red and if I hadn't I would be sitting there all night. He countered that the light was working perfectly well. I said would you like to go back and I'll show you and to my surprise he agreed. I sat at the light for two cycles and he told me to proceed left when it was safe to do so.

He is a total dick head.
And he wasted how much time on you?
So many just got above security guard and now are power mad.

 

[Therapy]

However, late in the evening I just run that red light........... At my age do not have time for red lights.

I am close to doing things that "they" won't like and will stop me for. I will use that argument and see if it gets me anywhere.
Have you used it?

I already watch the traffic lights and if it goes red and conditions warrant it, I make a right - a u-turn - and a right, bypassing the intersection. I learned this being on call 300+ days a year and driving in late at night on roads controlled with stupid lights.

 

[Therapy]

Sure that would not make your toes stick together?

Might make your shifting a bit goofy too!

 

[Therapy]

I do have to say that around my neighborhood the sensors can detect me. My problem is coming up behind some ditz who did not pull far enough up to trigger the sensor, is on the phone and seems to have all the time in the world.

The other day I sat behind someone (I shit you not) for three cycles. I was not in a hurry and was experimenting. Finally I pulled around and the Old Bat even rolled down her window. I explained how the system worked and she apologized. I am the same age or older but I am not that Fu***ng STUPID.
I am losing it.
I have not filtered in traffic because I know they can write a ticket for that in Florida but I may start.

 

[Brillot2000]

Here's an article that I found on-line regarding this subject and how other state have laws regarding it, Dead Red Light Laws.

 

[ST13Fred]

New Green Light Trigger Traffic Light Changer High Power | eBay

The Green Light Trigger has been marketed for many years that is nothing more than a magnet attached to a bike undercarriage to trigger a traffic light when it passes over the buried asphalt wire.
I installed a speaker magnet to my PC800 side stand, lowering it by deploying the stand (from neutral) with good success, except for one light, in the 33 lights I encountered, one way to work.

 

[Brillot2000]

I wonder if gluing a high intensity neodymium magnet to your left boot might help to get the sensor loop to respond to your presence?

That would only work to pick up large metal debris off the roadway and iron dust that's found in the dirt.

All those aftermarket "Red Light Changers" are Snake Oil and do nothing to address this issue.

 

[Ruggybuggy]

He is a total dick head.
And he wasted how much time on you?
So many just got above security guard and now are power mad.

A friend of mine worked as a jailer at our local police department and always comments that law enforcement are some of the dumbest people in society. He always comments "When the normal individual want to flea in the face of danger for self preservation reasons, law enforcement will run towards the danger. It takes a special kind of stupid to train people to react this way." His comments and not mine.

Actually our police (Canada) are highly train individuals and I have always been impressed at there skill set. My friend also told me that he's seen 5'5" 130lb female police officers drop 300lb individuals to there knees.

 

[Therapy]

A friend of mine worked as a jailer at our local police department and always comments that law enforcement are some of the dumbest people in society. He always comments "When the normal individual want to flea in the face of danger for self preservation reasons, law enforcement will run towards the danger. It takes a special kind of stupid to train people to react this way." His comments and not mine.

Actually our police (Canada) are highly train individuals and I have always been impressed at there skill set. My friend also told me that he's seen 5'5" 130lb female police officers drop 300lb individuals to there knees.

I guess I should not disparage the officers themselves. My brother-in-law is one and I was an auxiliary deputy many years ago. I know what happens in the mind when one is given a badge and a gun. It is fact that the average LEO has a less than average IQ but so does half the population right?
What I am having trouble with is the laws and multitudes of minor restrictions that a thinking person can solve but is not allowed to because it is "against the law".

My apologies for the way I reacted to the situation. I probably would have gotten a ticket because of my attitude. It is not the officer doing his job, but the silly, sometimes inflexible laws.

Is "running red lights" like the false assumption of marijuana use? A gateway to further, worse crime?

 

[Fuzzy]

We have to remember that LEOs have heard every excuse in the book. Reasonable for him to allow the problem to be demonstrated as option to ticket.

I spent 6 years in Alberta and have nothing but the highest respect for RCMP who provided the police force in the town I lived in.

 

[anglachel]

New Green Light Trigger Traffic Light Changer High Power | eBay

The Green Light Trigger has been marketed for many years that is nothing more than a magnet attached to a bike undercarriage to trigger a traffic light when it passes over the buried asphalt wire.
I installed a speaker magnet to my PC800 side stand, lowering it by deploying the stand (from neutral) with good success, except for one light, in the 33 lights I encountered, one way to work.

I don't have frequent problems with the motorcycle at lights, and most places there is either enough traffic to trip the lights, or not enough traffic to make going against the signal difficult.

On my bicycle though I used to have frequent problems (have since moved to a place where I fight fewer lights on the bicycle).
I put a old hard drive magnet on one of the pedals.... if I stopped at the light and had that pedal up the light would not trip, if that pedal was at it's lowest position it would trip the light.

Worked well, though were I to need to to it again I would make sure to bolt it down somehow (I just stuck it to the pedal with the magnet...) I lost the magnet somewhere in downtown Minneapolis when the republican national convention was in town... I suspect that it attached to the bottom of either a minneapolis squad car, or one of dozens of black lincoln town cars with hybrid drive systems that were brought (probably generating plenty of CO2 shipping them in and out of MSP) to show how green the politicians can be.

Lesson is getting low to the ground is key when dealing with inductive loops...
I worked with fast food restaurants at one point in my life, they use them in the drive through, it's amazing how well a 5lb cast iron frying pan right on top of a sensor simulates a ~1000lbs engine block and car frame elevated by a cars suspension...


I've yet to figure out how to use this to my advantage on the motorcycle... I'm not willing to carry a frying pan on the bike, and I'm not willing to lay the bike down to get through the intersection (brings a whole new meaning to "I had to lay it down") perhaps a kickstand going down could help, but I've never tried it.

 

[Fuzzy]

Another trick some swear by is to kill the engine the restart. The surge of current through the starter supposedly helps trip the system to change the light.

 

[BerndM]

Why, oh why do we have this discussion again and again? The sensors are triggered by simple physics. A conductive object moving in a magnetic field induces a current which is detected up by a current detector. Very simple. Any conductive object moving in a magnetic field will induce a current. The only issue is whether or not the current detector has been set low enough to detect the rather small current the mass of metal the size of a motorcycle or bicycle induces. Riding directly over the loops will help with inducing enough current. No magnets or other fancy devices needed. It is the mass of the conductive metal that causes the detection. The magnetism plays no part in the triggering at all, so unless you're hanging a 10 pound magnet to your bike, it will not help you.

 

[L.B.S.]

Why, oh why do we have this discussion again and again? The sensors are triggered by simple physics. A conductive object moving in a magnetic field induces a current which is detected up by a current detector. Very simple. Any conductive object moving in a magnetic field will induce a current. The only issue is whether or not the current detector has been set low enough to detect the rather small current the mass of metal the size of a motorcycle or bicycle induces. Riding directly over the loops will help with inducing enough current. No magnets or other fancy devices needed. It is the mass of the conductive metal that causes the detection. The magnetism plays no part in the triggering at all, so unless you're hanging a 10 pound magnet to your bike, it will not help you.

I think the major problem with generic public misunderstanding, is that they don't seem to be very consistent or work very well. For such a supposedly simple device principle, they should always work, and not even have an ability to be set in such a way as to not register something as heavy as a motorcycle.

The people who are in charge of designing these things, or the ones installing them, should be taken into a back alley and given the business end of a pool cue for the amount of absurd difficulty I run into on a day to day basis, being stuck at lights that never trip when a motorcycle is sitting on them.

 

[Brillot2000]

The magnetism plays no part in the triggering at all, so unless you're hanging a 10 pound magnet to your bike, it will not help you.

Just imagine all ferromagnetic debris you would be picking off the road as you ride. Scrap metal collectors would be jealous of you.

I cannot tell you how many times that I had an old hot water heater stuck underneath my bike when I hang one of those magnets on it.

BerndM is correct, it's the mass, not the magnetic field. Some one thought they could cheat on this one.

 

[Brillot2000]

Here are a few "Alternative Methods" that I saw on-line regarding how to trigger a traffic light.

Alternative Methods:

1. Push the crosswalk button. If the intersection has a crosswalk, you can leave your motorcycle/scooter/bike and push the pedestrians' crosswalk button to force the lights to cycle. This, however, may not be legal nor safe.
2. Report the traffic light. If none of the above methods work, it's likely that the sensor is poorly adjusted or broken. Either way, the problem needs to be addressed.
3. Press the starter button If you're on a motorcycle you can pull in the clutch, stop the engine, and press the engine starter button. The starter is powered by an electromagnetic motor, creating more magnetic energy and tripping the sensor.

Anyone is free to try any of the above mentioned. If you find one works better than another, please let us all know what does.

 

[Therapy]

Here are a few "Alternative Methods" that I saw on-line regarding how to trigger a traffic light.

Alternative Methods:

1. Push the crosswalk button. If the intersection has a crosswalk, you can leave your motorcycle/scooter/bike and push the pedestrians' crosswalk button to force the lights to cycle. This, however, may not be legal nor safe.
2. Report the traffic light. If none of the above methods work, it's likely that the sensor is poorly adjusted or broken. Either way, the problem needs to be addressed.
3. Press the starter button If you're on a motorcycle you can pull in the clutch, stop the engine, and press the engine starter button. The starter is powered by an electromagnetic motor, creating more magnetic energy and tripping the sensor.

Anyone is free to try any of the above mentioned. If you find one works better than another, please let us all know what does.

Ummmm.....

#1 - ridiculous
#2 - Ok fine, but does nothing for the rider. Sitting there calling the "repair person" might take longer than waiting for some heavier mass to show up.
#3 - I though magnetism didn't do anything. I don't think pressing the starter button increases mass either. Maybe things have changed???

What do you do on your electric bike with no starter button to use? (joke)

Kinda shows how much the internet is worth at times huh?

No wonder the magnets sell.

I don't have the patience for nonsense or broken traffic lights. I will wait X amount of time and then ride on. If I have a problem I will do what Beemerphile did.

 

[Brillot2000]

What do you do on your electric bike with no starter button to use? (joke)

I don't have the patience for nonsense or broken traffic lights. I will wait X amount of time and then ride on. If I have a problem I will do what Beemerphile did.

There is a button where the start button would be, however is re-purposed as the "MODE" select switch.



I normally wait X-amount of time in the morning hours and just go when it's safe to do so.

 

[anglachel]

Why, oh why do we have this discussion again and again? The sensors are triggered by simple physics. A conductive object moving in a magnetic field induces a current which is detected up by a current detector. Very simple. Any conductive object moving in a magnetic field will induce a current. The only issue is whether or not the current detector has been set low enough to detect the rather small current the mass of metal the size of a motorcycle or bicycle induces. Riding directly over the loops will help with inducing enough current. No magnets or other fancy devices needed. It is the mass of the conductive metal that causes the detection. The magnetism plays no part in the triggering at all, so unless you're hanging a 10 pound magnet to your bike, it will not help you.

In my experience when some one claims something is "simple physics" they are rarely accounting for all the variables.

So let's start with what an induction loop detector actually is, it's a bunch of wires coiled up under the pavement.
Though those wires a controler pumps an alternating current. Pumping a current through a coil generates a magnetic field, pumping an alternating current through a coil generates an alternating magnetic field.

What is actually being measured is how hard it is to flip that magnetic field from the north pole being up to the north pole being down... (follow the right hand rule direction of the magnetic field is perpendicular to the direction of the coils)
Simple physics tells us that if we stuck a ferrous rod through that coil it would be magnetized, and then reverse magnetized over and over again, and it would take more energy to reverse that magnetic field than it would when there is nothing in the coil.
Something ferrous being placed over, or even in proximity to that coil also makes it hard to flip that magnetic field.
This happens because it takes energy to induce a magnetic field.

HOWEVER, magnetics and electrical currents impact each other, so passing a mass of conductive material over a magnetic field also has an impact on how hard it to change the direction of that field.




All of that being said, the two single biggest factors are going to be distance and material.
You need something that is ferrous and/or electrically conductive, and it needs to be close to the ground.

I know of one accessory that might help, and provide some additional functionality (other than keeping your rear tire free of nails), the center stand, which is just a big chunk of steel, installed at the bottom of the bike.
still might not be enough metal close enough to the ground, or enough metal, but it has the benefit of being able to pivot to be closer the the ground, and it has more metal in it than the kickstand does.

Slapping a magnet on there may also help, orientation is important the north pole should be pointed either up or down, because the coil is going to follow the right hand rule (though with an AC current you can really use either hand since it just switches over and over again).


Distance and material are the biggest problems... replace your rims with steel rims (something that a magnet will stick to) and you'll trip sensors much easier... but you'll also probably have plenty of other concerns, unsprung weight and what not... getting conductive iron content close to the ground is the best way to trip the sensors, distance is largest impact, get magnetic electrically conductive metal close to the ground.

 

[BerndM]

As a basis of comparison, here is a list, in descending order, of the most commonly used conductive materials.
According to this, the best metal to use to help trigger a buried loop sensor would be copper, but it is relatively expensive and heavy.
Aluminum is the clear winner as it is cheap AND light weight.
Steel basically sucks.
So stick with the aluminum wheels if you already have them.