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Suspension?

killarneygetaway

killarneygetaway

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Hello fellow NC owners,

As the title states, I have some questions about suspension. I have read every post on here and other forums regarding suspension and still get wrap my head around it. I know a lot about a lot of things, but suspension does not fall in that category. That and knitting.

Anyway, I love my NC700S and plan to keep it for a few years. My wife loves riding with me. After some modifications to the seat, the bike is nearly perfect for our needs. The only thing we find is that the suspension is too hard. Whether she is on it with me or not makes no difference. If I hit a bump, I feel it in my arms from the jerk created by the front knives (or is it forks). What I would like to know is what do I need to do to soften the suspension so it isn't so harsh on the bumps. I have heard of ohlins or penske's for the back, but I don't know what I need as I don't know the terminology or, well, anything else for that matter. I have heard of emulators for the front but am not sure what that means.

Would one of you masters of the suspension universe be able to assist me in finding something that may be suitable for my needs?

Thank you,
Jason...
 
Try these threads about the racetech emulators. The forks contain the springs and what is equivalent to a shock. These threads are about changing to Reacetech emulators which is basically the valves of the shock part. Last thread is about a preload adjuster for the fork.

http://nc700-forum.com/forum/nc700-technical/2485-front-suspension-upgrade.html

http://nc700-forum.com/forum/nc700-mods/2663-race-tech-fork-springs.html

http://nc700-forum.com/forum/garage-mechanical-help/3748-fork-oil-change.html

http://nc700-forum.com/forum/nc700-mods/963-honda-cnc-billet-preload-adjusters.html
 
Here is the short course. The damping in the front suspension occurs when the suspension fluid provides resistance to being forced through control orifices as the suspension moves up and down. When it resists the suspension moving down it is called compression damping. When it resists the upward (or return) movement, it is called rebound damping. At it's most basic level, the problem with the budget front suspension on the NC, and the result that you are feeling, is that there is only one compression damping circuit that is not effective at all speeds. By "speeds", I mean the speed at which the wheel moves up or down, and not necessarily the speed of the motorcycle. What it needs is a restrictive control when the suspension is moving slowly, but when there is a sudden or square-edged bump at high velocity, the suspension needs to be able to move enough fluid quickly enough to let the suspension move and follow the road surface. As you can imagine, with a single circuit, if the system is tuned to work well at a low velocity (it is) then it will be harsh at a high velocity (it is). If you decreased the damping by drilling larger control orifices or by using lighter oil, you would improve the high speed damping, but the low speed damping would be too low and the bike would wallow around making you seasick (or just sick). What is needed are separate high and low speed (or continuously variable) damping controls that change the damping level with changes in suspension velocity. In it's simplest implementation, two speed compression damping involves a second control orifice that is held normally closed by a spring operated valve. At low velocities, the oil goes through the low speed orifice and everyone is happy (ie: not sick). When a big fast gnarly bump comes along, the pressure rise in the fluid overcomes the spring pressure and opens the second larger valve so that more fluid can be moved out of the way, allowing the wheel to move with the road surface. You can tune the high speed damping by the size of the second orifice and the strength and/or preload of the valve spring. This allows tuning that is much finer than just the weight of the oil in the stock suspension.

You will find very often that weaker springs are used in single circuit suspensions in an attempt to reduce harshness. It really amounts to solving the wrong problem. You will find that once the damping is properly adjustable at different speeds, that firmer springs can be used. The happy result is a suspension that is both firmer on bad roads and resistant to bottoming, yet still more compliant than before on rough roads. Win, win.

There are many suspension upgrades that are more sophisticated than GV emulators - but they are also more expensive. True cartridge forks come to mind. Lots of us have found, though, that the GV emulators give enough improvement that we are then satisfied with the suspension's performance to the extent that we don't feel that a more sophisticated (and costly) solution is necessary.

A thing should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler - Albert Einstein
 
Henceforth, this shall forever be the go-to post when someone asks about GV Emulators. Excellent explanation.

Greg
 
Alternatively; go for a several hundred kilometre jaunt on washboard gravel roads. If you survive and make it back to pavement, no matter what the condition, you will believe your NCX to be the smoothest riding wheeled thing since the invention of very smooth things.

I keed, I keed, but yowza, was I ever happy to see tarmac after a week of north van island gravel, lol
 
L.B.S. said:
Alternatively; go for a several hundred kilometre jaunt on washboard gravel roads. If you survive and make it back to pavement, no matter what the condition, you will believe your NCX to be the smoothest riding wheeled thing since the invention of very smooth things.

I keed, I keed, but yowza, was I ever happy to see tarmac after a week of north van island gravel, lol
Click to expand...

As was I after the Destruction Bay YT to Alaska border !!!.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
dramd said:
The highway was not paved?
Click to expand...

Some of it is being torn out to the base and repaved. However, the paved highways are worse than the unpaved ones. When an unpaved highway heaves, you grade it. When a paved highway heaves, well you have a messed up road. The worst parts of the Dalton are the older paved sections. The locals know that paving it is stupid, however, they can get government funds to pave it but they cannot get government funds to maintain it. So politics prevails over common sense.
 
Beemerphile, you are a wealth of knowledge. Thank you for your very thorough yet simple explanation of how the suspension system works. Even my wife understood it.

Now, regarding the emulators, I have the NCS model available here in Canada which of course isn't available in the states. When I look at the racetech website, they only list the NCX. Would I use the same parts from them on the S even though the fork shocks are different?

Thank you
Jason
 
killarneygetaway said:
Beemerphile, you are a wealth of knowledge. Thank you for your very thorough yet simple explanation of how the suspension system works. Even my wife understood it.

Now, regarding the emulators, I have the NCS model available here in Canada which of course isn't available in the states. When I look at the racetech website, they only list the NCX. Would I use the same parts from them on the S even though the fork shocks are different?

Thank you
Jason
Click to expand...

Best to call or write them. I believe you have the same style of suspension and the same 41mm diameter fork tubes (though shorter) so the same GV's should work. Springs, spacers, and oil fill levels are likely different.

I have been hoping that someone would try a set of Intimidators and report back...

http://store.ricorshocks.com/product_p/041-20-1001.htm

They cater to the Harley crowd, so it might make you want to throw your helmet in the weeds...
 
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