Pre - garage prep

[kaz]

I'm taking the NC to the garage for the first time. The occasion - swapping the brake cables for braided steel ones.

EDIT: I have the ABS version NC700X, 2012

Folks here suggested that swapping the cables helps with brake feel. I also read that it's good practice to replace the cables every 4 years. Mine is 2012, so I figured this would put me at ease + provide some extra brake feel.


I was wondering whether there are things you (might want to) do before you leave your bike at the garage. This one specifically is a modding garage, not Honda specific as far as I know.

I was thinking -

- Marking the location of the right hand plastic that holds the brake lever and other buttons with 2 pieces of tape.
- Removing fairings that cover brake lines in advance, so they don't try to yank them off or something (Which ones would those be? I was aiming at the side ones that have NCXXX on them)
- Leave the shop manual in the frunk, with bookmarks on torque settings, right handlebar plastic holder removal etc.


Is this something you would do? What else would you recommend?


Thanks

 

[DirtFlier]

Unless you have an ancient bike, it doesn't have "brake cables." They are hydraulic hoses.

At least to me, switching to braided steel brake hoses is way over-rated and often done for purely, cosmetic reasons.

ps. if it was truly necessary to change the brake hoses every 4 years, it would state that in the service manual.

 

[Jt105]

Brake hoses are fairly exposed. No need to do anything special.

JT

 

[670cc]

I would have an enormous amount of concern if I were dropping my NC off at a garage in the situation you described. I would happily go to the dentist, or even get a colonoscopy, rather than face the anxiety of dropping my bike off for service as you described.

If you thought you’d need to assist with plastics removal, or torque specs, this is a probably going to end in disaster. If the garage needs to remove the side fairing to do the service, and they don’t use a service manual or have prior experience removing it, you can almost guarantee it will end up broken and the hardware will not be reinstalled correctly.

The plastic switch housing on the right handlebar does not hold the brake lever or master cylinder. Also, the plastic housing has a pin that locates in a hole in the bar, so it will only mount in one place anyway. In fact, the brake hose can be replaced without removing the switch housing or the master cylinder.

Is this bike an ABS model with combined braking and the three pot front caliper? Would this garage know how to bleed the brakes on this type system?

In the older days, like the 1970s, I remember seeing the motorcycle maintenance schedule recommending hose replacement at certain intervals. That practice seems to have ended now, or at least most owners ignore it. Thinking about modern automobiles, their flexible brake lines generally last for the life of the vehicle. My oldest motorcycle is 17 years old, has the original brake hoses, and I’m not thinking of replacing them anytime soon.

If I were you, I would rethink the rationale for this whole exercise. What very little you might gain from brake line replacement, if anything, may not be worth the problems resulting from poor brake bleeding or damage to the motorcycle.

 

[kaz]

I would have an enormous amount of concern if I were dropping my NC off at a garage in the situation you described. I would happily go to the dentist, or even get a colonoscopy, rather than face the anxiety of dropping my bike off for service as you described.

If you thought you’d need to assist with plastics removal, or torque specs, this is a probably going to end in disaster. If the garage needs to remove the side fairing to do the service, and they don’t use a service manual or have prior experience removing it, you can almost guarantee it will end up broken and the hardware will not be reinstalled correctly.

The plastic switch housing on the right handlebar does not hold the brake lever. Also, it has a pin that locates in a hole in the bar, so it will only mount in one place anyway. In fact, the brake hose can be replaced without removing the switch housing or the master cylinder.

Is this bike an ABS model with combined braking and the three pot front caliper? Would this garage know how to bleed the brakes on this type system?

In the older days, like the 1970s, I remember seeing the motorcycle maintenance schedule recommending hose replacement at certain intervals. That practice seems to have ended now, or at least most owners ignore it. Thinking about modern automobiles, their flexible brake lines generally last for the life of the vehicle. My oldest motorcycle is 17 years old, has the original brake hoses, and I’m not thinking of replacing them anytime soon.

If I were you, I would rethink the rationale for this whole exercise. What very little you might gain from brake line replacement, if anything, may not be worth the problems resulting from poor brake bleeding or damage to the motorcycle.

Yes, the ABS version of 2012. As I understand, they are using HEL hoses (thanks for the fix DirtFlie) and replacing the entirety of mine.

I was actually hoping the proper bleeding would be part of the gig - bleed + add fluid + make sure the cables are new.
( The bleeding didn't concern me as I assumed bleeding an ABS is the same everywhere)


Do they need to remove any plastics for the ABS model in order to replace the hoses? I (tend to) believe they will be ok with the braking system part.

 

[670cc]

I’d need to recheck the hose schematics, but on this model there may be a brake line between the rear master cylinder and the front caliper center pot. I’d assume that line somehow runs under the plastic bodywork from the rear to the front. I’d guess you’d be replacing If the service manual is available, it should be consulted for the brake bleeding routine on the combined ABS system.

Edit:
Looking at the service manual, there appears to be at least five brake hoses involved, as well as more fixed lines attached to the frame. There is the ABS modulator, a delay valve, and a proportioning valve, and the front and rear master cylinders. Two hoses run to the front caliper and there are two bleed valves there, while the rear caliper has one bleed valve.

 

[kaz]

Thanks, I'm reconsidering this. The garage is pretty well reputed and I wanted to invest in the braking. The lines looked like a good bet - I haven't encountered reports of people who replaced the hoses to steel and felt it wasn't worth it.

 

[TacomaJD]

Thanks, I'm reconsidering this. The garage is pretty well reputed and I wanted to invest in the braking. The lines looked like a good bet - I haven't encountered reports of people who replaced the hoses to steel and felt it wasn't worth it.

Of course, because when people spend money on parts like that, they want to feel like it was worth it so they act like it was.

I'd save your money paying for parts and labor on something like this that you probably won't be able to tell a difference in, and buy some performance brake pads. I feel like your expectations of steel brake lines are higher than the realistic outcome. Not a worthwhile modification in my opinion.

Change your brake fluid and throw on some HH friction pads and you will have all the brakes you need, 100% guaranteed.

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[Red Rider]

We all spend money on parts that may not be needed - goes with the territory - I’d be more worried about what condition I’d get my bike back.. missing fasteners, broken tabs, ill fitting panels, squeaky plastic. The stuff NC nightmares are made of....

 

[halfmt1]

About 3 months into ownership of my 2018 DCT, I replaced the front and rear brake pads with EBC sintered HH pads. Now that was definitely an upgrade!

 

[kaz]

Thanks all for the feedback.

The garage actually did deal with NC's, but seeing this -
[video=youtube;csV5gQo9wmc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csV5gQo9wmc[/video]
And reading about someone who replaced his ABS hoses, and found little improvement compared to non ABS replacement -
Steel braided brake lines with abs | Adventure Rider

The ABS unit was a bee-otch to get ALL the bubbles out, in that I had to vacuum, and pump with the brake lever, and I went through two bottle of brake fluid by the time I'd finished. It took 5 hours, in that I'm slow and I triple checked everything, because brake failures are fatal. When I've done this before on standard brakes (non-ABS), the braking improvements were stunning, but with the ABS slop permanently in the system the improvements to the GS were barely noticeable.

And given that there are kits for the non ABS NC's (Galfer, Spiegler), but none whatsoever for the ABS, I figured I'd be hitting more of the drawbacks and risks of steel hoses (including the cutting and fitment etc), disregarding even the fees.

If mine didn't have ABS, however, I think I may've went for one of those kits. Lifetime warranty on both, put your money where your brakes are

I wonder - if you use braided hoses and get a better feel, so you don't need sintered pads - does it mean you need to replace rotors less frequently?

 

[GregC]

I just put EBC HH pads on the front of my 2015 DCT. Bled the system. All working fine.

Did I notice a big difference?
.
.
.
Nope. Some difference (which could be “placebo” effect or what I would have noticed from any new pads), but nothing astounding.

Given the trouble I had getting the right part numbers from the EBC catalog, next time I’m just using OEM.

I considered going to steel lines as well, but once I found nobody made a set for this bike that was the end of that thought.


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[rippin209]

I just put EBC HH pads on the front of my 2015 DCT. Bled the system. All working fine.

Did I notice a big difference?
.
.
.
Nope. Some difference (which could be “placebo” effect or what I would have noticed from any new pads), but nothing astounding.

Given the trouble I had getting the right part numbers from the EBC catalog, next time I’m just using OEM.

I considered going to steel lines as well, but once I found nobody made a set for this bike that was the end of that thought.


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From what I remember the front comes with HH brake pads (just not EBC brand) stock so them feeling the same or close to it makes sense