NC700X VS KTM Duke 690!

[Mojave]

Not Really! But I did take a ride on a 2013 Duke 690 today. There are similarities but overall they are very different bikes with, it seems to me, different purposes. I'm kind of looking - it's no secret I'm not convinced about the NCX I bought about a month ago - I've been in the mode that it's an intermediate or temporary bike. The main reason for this is the engine character which is just too slow and low powered. The truth is for 90 percent of my riding it's just fine, but that other 10 percent is important too. A bike I've considered for a long time is the Duke 690. The 2013 iteration at $8,999 seemed worth looking into. Reviews are a little inconsistent but for the most part positive. I had an opportunity to stop in at Ramona (CA) KTM today and wow, they had three of three of them on the floor, and one was a demo and another was a 2013 precurrent discounted to $7,999! So, let the review begin.

Appearance. I LOVE the way the Duke looks. It just oozes quality and the design is elemental motorcycle. I could buy it on looks alone. The NCX doesn't really compare in looks - I like the NCX style well enough but it doesn't evoke a response from me like the Duke.

Ergos. The Duke is tiny. I'm 5'9" and it feels a little cramped. Otherwise it seems comfy enough just sitting on it - I could get used to it. The NCX clearly wins here.

Engine performance. Well, with 20 more HP and 120 pounds less weight there is no contest here - the Duke plain rips. I was taking it easy and the front kept coming up. I like that. What I didn't like as much was the raw character of the engine. There is quite a bit of vibration and it just seemed unrefined. It's a drive by wire throttle and it had an annoying lag in the response that effectively made the engine "snatchy". I could get used to this, and maybe even come to love it, like I did with a completely unruly Ducati S4R I had for a while.

On the road. In town up to 50mph or so it's a hoot. You are very connected on this tiny powerhouse and I don't know of another bike outside of a pure supermoto that compares. At 50-65 it's pretty good but as you go faster you start getting distracted by the wind blast. I took it up to 75 and held it for about 30 seconds, that was the moment I knew I wasn't going to buy a Duke 690. Along with the windblast peeling me back there was simply too much engine vibration - I realized I'd not be happy on long rides. It's just not what I consider a versatile motorcycle able to do light touring along with canyon strafing.

So, there's my evaluation. The Duke could take care of the 10 percent the NCX doesn't cover, but it can't do a lot of the what the NCX does well. I'm looking for a single do it almost all bike, not a bunch of specialized bikes. The ride did make me appreciate the NCX more - the light handling, smooth engine, comfy ergos.

Later on I stopped in at Moto Forza, and there Balz spent some time trying to convince me a $27,000 OTD Ducati Multistrada 1200S Pike was the bike for me. I probably should not ever test ride one of those.

 

[mike5100]

Thanks for the review Mojave. I too rode one last year and more or less came to the same conclusions as you. I couldn't go long distances on it, and despite their claims of sorting the low speed throttle, I hated it round town - unless I was hammering it, when it was a brilliant little machine.
Your criticisms of the 700 engine are valid too. I replaced mine with the 750X a month ago and the new engine gives almost enough for what you are looking for ... but probably not quite enough
Mike

 

[wozza]

It's funny how people like different styling. I've looked at quite a few KTMs in recent years including the sports bike RC8. However, to me they are far too angular and lack style with bits of angular plastic stuck on the sides here and there. Obviously what's style for one person is something else to another person. Which ultimately is good because it creates more choice in the market place.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[davidc83]

It's funny how people like different styling. I've looked at quite a few KTMs in recent years including the sports bike RC8. However, to me they are far too angular and lack style with bits of angular plastic stuck on the sides here and there. Obviously what's style for one person is something else to another person. Which ultimately is good because it creates more choice in the market place.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Of course the Duke 690 is going to have more vibration-it is a single cylinder engine. Drive by wire is another term for 'computer controlled'-there is no throttle cable going to the fuel injector assembly-sensors in the throttle sends the signals to the fuel injector module, which will cause a delay compared to any true throttle cable. When I had my BMW 650, I didn't notice the vibrations until I had ridden the NCX as a comparison. I traded in the BMW 650 because I got tired of listening to a single cylinder thumper (I put 36,000+ miles on it in 4 years).

 

[Mojave]

I hated it round town - unless I was hammering it, when it was a brilliant little machine.

Agree, the more you keep the throttle ON the better it is!

I replaced mine with the 750X a month ago and the new engine gives almost enough for what you are looking for ... but probably not quite enough

But how will I ever know because Honda isn't bringing them to US.

However, to me they are far too angular and lack style with bits of angular plastic stuck on the sides here and there.

I agree, really. However, in the presence of the bikes I start looking past the macro styling and see the quality. Little details, the shape and detail of the engines, etc. It makes sense. Not a complete package like a (older) Ducati say, more elemental yet, Germanic form following function.

Of course the Duke 690 is going to have more vibration-it is a single cylinder engine.

Two balance shafts and so much vibration remains? After owning 3 SR500's, a SRX600, a bunch of XR's, a DR650, and two Dakars, I have a perspective about big singles. The 690 compared to the Rotax derived 650 is unrefined. If it was more like the BMW engine I would not count the vibration as a negative. I noticed in the reviews that many of the reviewers tended to dwell on the vibration. I thought, perhaps as you do, that they were not being realistic about "the nature of the beast". However, after my ride I see what they mean.

Drive by wire...which will cause a delay compared to any true throttle cable

OK, there I do not agreed with you. The response of a control system, whether mechanical or electro/mechanical is a function of a lot of variables. The design control rate of this system is probably beyond the ability of a human to detect. Properly tuned it should be completely natural and transparent. The fact is there is a defect, either a component weakness or a software tuning problem, in the throttle. There are completely satisfactory FBW throttles out there, KTM needs to fix this one. Cables actuated throttles have mechanical lags too, but those are small and we just get used to them.

I must say I'm still thinking about the little beast. Is passing it by something I'll regret? During the ride I thought many thoughts all in a jumble as the impressions of this bike hammered me. One of the stronger contrasts I had is how it was so different from the equally urgent Ducati's I've owned or ridden. A little 2 valve monster will rip just as well, and the L engine is a turbine in comparison on the highway. Of course the Monster ergos aren't the best, but you aren't getting peeled off at 75mph. Once again I think I'm in a waiting mode - a Versys, Yamaha's mythological MT-07, etc. I do have a soft spot for 2 valve Ducati's (4 valve Ducati's have some drawbacks, including too much power!).

My main reason for going to Moto Forza was they have a couple of Husky TR650 Terra's there for $5,999 ($7,340 OTD - SOY Balz!). Ultimately, I just can't buy into that bike - it's too tall, too heavy, too dualsport. Almost all the reviews note slightly wonky stability above 70 mph. Picking it up off the stand I KNEW someday I'd absolutely destroy that bike on a rocky downhill somewhere. The radiator is a foot and a half wide, square meters of shiny plastic just waiting to be crunched. But the engine! it's gorgeous. And by all reviews it's superior to the 690 in all ways except perhaps peak power, but even there it's just behind. I know and respect those Rotax based engines and this iteration looks by far to the be the best. So the TR650 Strada is a bike I'd be interested in too.

In the meantime I will ride the NCX. Last week I lowered the gearing but have not been able to give it a real ride. So far I think it's a good change for me - the cruise at 75 -80mph true is still more than smooth enough, the 7 percent increase in torque through the gears is noticeable. We are having a major winter storm today and tomorrow (finally), so no riding - I'm working on my wife's first gen Ninja 250 - brake lines and fork springs.

 

[davidc83]

I really liked the TR650 Strada, but then BMW sold the Husqvana (sp?) brand (to KTM I believe) and I have not seen any new ones advertised (the TR650 series).

 

[Mojave]

The Strada was/is rare compared to the Terra. For a while I remember the blow-out price of $5,500 for the Strada. Yes, the owner of KTM now owns Husqvarna, and it's unlikely Husky will ever have streetbikes in the lineup again.

The Strada I would think would be much superior to the Yamaha 660 MZ's. I rode a Bajera and it was sllllooooowww. My Dakars were considerably brighter than the 660.

Balz suggested putting Strada wheels on the Terra. Cool, make a $7,000 bike a $8,000 bike.

 

[Lord la la]

Both In My Garage

Hi Mojave... You're evaluation is spot-on re the 690, it is a hoot to ride. It is a small bike with a short reach to the handlebars, but I'm 5-6, 140 lb. so for me it is a joy to have that much "presence" on the bike. I use it primarily (actually "only", now that I think of it) for (slowly) dicing up the Malibu Canyon Roads, a task that it absolutely excels at!

My NC7X (standard) is entirely another bike. Excellent in most respects, but definitely different from the KTM.

Below is a pic or two of my 690 Duke. As you can see I've added some KTM accessories (engine protector bars, rear cowl and handguards) as well as a Leo Vince exhaust and mid-pipe. You cant see the O2 sensor which smooths out the throttle response tremendously.

Since you're not too far away, feel free to PM me if you'd like to do a ride and we could swap bikes, as I've been interested lately in the DCT model and would like to test drive one.

 

[Mojave]

Lord La La, thanks for the offer. Alas, I have a standard NC too. If you are up this way (South Sierra) we could meet.

I see you have a LV cat eliminator... . The throttle action is basically fixed? What do you think of the engine vibs after having it for awhile? The ergos are compact - as I was going along at 70 I was wondering how I could move the handlebar forward 2 or 3 inches!

I, of course, was thinking of an all around bike. And since no one makes a low seat "scrambler" (I don't count the Triumph 500 pound scrambler) I was kind of thinking of going that way. Have you had yours in the dirt yet?

 

[Lord la la]

My bad...I thought yours was the DCT model, but the offer stands.

Yes it is a LV cat eliminator.

I wouldn't go so far as to say the throttle response is cured, it is however much improved. Especially in the lowest of the three power modes, which is where I generally keep it. In the intermediate position the power delivery is still a bit snatchy and bothersome, and in the full- on setting it is basically too bothersome to ride at low speeds. But once the rpm's build the engine does jump, and the torque is a rush!

Re the vibes: I notice them now that I think about them, but realistically I expected the thumping of a big single when I bought the bike. I recently had a 76 Yamaha SRX 600, another big single, but a smaller bike, and the vibrations were much more noticeable on the Yamaha. I think the Duke is as smooth as a 690 single could be expected to be. I would be hard pressed to have the Duke as an all-round bike, simply because I wouldn't want to do much slab riding on the bike, since it is so small and light.

I don't ride the Duke in the dirt, although It could be done. Again, the qualities that make it less than ideal for slab riding lend themselves to taking it off-road...maybe. I've also tried to find that single do-it-all bike, and have finally resigned myself to having two bikes (and sveral more if SWMBO wasn't a factor)!

Have you been here? Scroll down to DUKE and enjoy!
KTM Forums: KTM Motorcycle Forum

 

[Mojave]

I wondered about the dirt because of the engine guards.

I didn't even know there are different engine modes. I'm guessing I was in the full-on mode because the front kept coming up! I wished I had tried the other modes now.

I had a SRX600 for a while - it seemed pretty darn smooth compared to the SR500. Ultimately I couldn't bond with the bike, too specialized. It was a chore on really tight roads and not that great on the highway either.

The quandary I'm facing with the NCX is how much money to spend on it. I'm content to ride it but there are several things I could buy. The centerstand would be nice for those multiday trips I take once in a while. A better wind screen. A skidplate. A rack. If I was really committed then a good shock and fork innerds.

 

[Fuzzy]

When I bought mine I was at best half done with my spending.

 

[Mi_ka]

I do have a soft spot for 2 valve Ducati's (4 valve Ducati's have some drawbacks, including too much power!).

Since you mentioned it, what are the 4valvers drawbacks?