Unpredictable front suspension

[Inked469]

Hey folks, I'm supremely not confident with the bike in turns where I'm leaned over pretty good. Not for lack of experience or lack of training but due to the unpredictability of the front forks. Lots of threads are coming up for racetech valves and new oil but Ive never dealt with my front suspension like this. Will new valves help bring back some confidence or am I just going to have to get used to it. I'm coming from cruisers and liter bikes.... So this may just be me not used to everything.


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[rippin209]

Hey folks, I'm supremely not confident with the bike in turns where I'm leaned over pretty good. Not for lack of experience or lack of training but due to the unpredictability of the front forks. Lots of threads are coming up for racetech valves and new oil but Ive never dealt with my front suspension like this. Will new valves help bring back some confidence or am I just going to have to get used to it. I'm coming from cruisers and liter bikes.... So this may just be me not used to everything.


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Can you describe what is happening to make it so your not confident in the front end. Is it washing out or choppy?

 

[AsureDawn]

It does feel weird leaning it way over, but I haven't noticed anything concerning about the handling in the turns (other than that one time I rode over gravel I hadn't seen and the front jumped about 1.5 to 2 ft forward, before grabbing the asphalt again). That said, I'm not super experienced with street riding and only rode a cruiser once (a suzuki 250), during an MSF course, so I may just not notice what you're feeling.

 

[Deleted member 1183]

My experience with this bike was similar to yours at first. Part of the problem then was the poor performance of the Z8 tyres. They just didn't suit the NC. I replaced them with PR4's and that greatly helped. Honda can occasionally specify poor OEM tyres on their bikes as I also found recently with my Africa twin.

I also dropped the pressure on the rear from 42psi to around 36 when riding solo. That also helped.

Tyres apart I found that the front end tended to push when well heeled over on some road surfaces. To remedy that I upped the preload on the rear shock to its maximum position. That tended to raise the rear of the bike and it quickened the steering. I also lowered the front end a tad more by raising the forks slightly in the triple clamps. I cannot remember exactly how much I did on that aspect but probably no more than 1cm.

Adding all these actions I ended up with a bike that turned much better than stock and did a lot for my confidence in it. These remedies worked for me but they may not work for everyone. As such others on here will also have some good suggestions and obviously You will chose what works best for you.

 

[rymech]

I'm not super familiar with motorcycle handling and the intricacies of the NC's shocks. I do know that they feel fairly squishy for how new the bike is. Different springs and an oil swap would definitely firm things up.

As far as confidence, you will be much more confident on a bike that mimics your past machines. But the best confidence booster is practice cornering with the new setup. Remember the NC is a new design (New Concept).


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[Inked469]

Can you describe what is happening to make it so your not confident in the front end. Is it washing out or choppy?

It's almost wobbly. In the 40's if I catch any sort of variations in the road it's quite all over the place. Once it settles down... I have no problems again.


2014 nc700x -Rox risers-22in madstad-barkbuster storms.

 

[Inked469]

It does feel weird leaning it way over, but I haven't noticed anything concerning about the handling in the turns (other than that one time I rode over gravel I hadn't seen and the front jumped about 1.5 to 2 ft forward, before grabbing the asphalt again). That said, I'm not super experienced with street riding and only rode a cruiser once (a suzuki 250), during an MSF course, so I may just not notice what you're feeling.

It's definitely a one off situation. I've had bikes with much softer suspension and handle just fine. And of course sport bikes are in another world..... But I much prefer the nc to everything else.


2014 nc700x -Rox risers-22in madstad-barkbuster storms.

 

[Inked469]

My experience with this bike was similar to yours at first. Part of the problem then was the poor performance of the Z8 tyres. They just didn't suit the NC. I replaced them with PR4's and that greatly helped. Honda can occasionally specify poor OEM tyres on their bikes as I also found recently with my Africa twin.

I also dropped the pressure on the rear from 42psi to around 36 when riding solo. That also helped.

Tyres apart I found that the front end tended to push when well heeled over on some road surfaces. To remedy that I upped the preload on the rear shock to its maximum position. That tended to raise the rear of the bike and it quickened the steering. I also lowered the front end a tad more by raising the forks slightly in the triple clamps. I cannot remember exactly how much I did on that aspect but probably no more than 1cm.

Adding all these actions I ended up with a bike that turned much better than stock and did a lot for my confidence in it. These remedies worked for me but they may not work for everyone. As such others on here will also have some good suggestions and obviously You will chose what works best for you.

I appreciate the suggestions. New tires are on the books for when the stock dunlops wear out, I was already gonna go with pr4s.

I'll have to try out the adjustments.


2014 nc700x -Rox risers-22in madstad-barkbuster storms.

 

[b_rubenstein]

The gas tank located under the seat and the engine being almost horizontal and up a little high concentrates the mass of the bike that results in a low moment of polar inertia: it takes low force to change direction. This is probably different than most liter bikes and very different than cruisers. The NC takes a light, sure, smooth touch. The chassis is nice and stiff and handling is very good. It's not perfect though, and some of the tires it came with aren't great on pavement. My 2014 came with Dunlop Trailmax tires which were underwhelming. Avon Storm 3D sport bike tires were a great improvement. The roads here in central FL are generally very smooth, so I don't notice significant harshness in the forks. The one issue I do have with them is the lack of rebound dampening. The front end pops up when the front brake is released after hard braking, and that can be unsettling going into a turn.

Before making changes to the bike, I suggest spending more time getting used to how it handles.

 

[ld_rider]

I'm coming from cruisers and liter bikes.... So this may just be me not used to everything.

Unless you have worn tires or the bike was damaged I think you nailed it.

Most cruisers have such weird geometry that they really don't like to turn too easily. Not sure what you mean by a liter-bike since that is an engine size and not too descriptive but my guess is that the motorcycle probably had much better suspension components on it than any NC ever had.

So yes, they are both entirely different in the way they steer than the NC.

Then, toss in an almost 2 foot tall sheet of plastic mounted to your bike and I can see where it might seem a bit squirrelly at 40 mph when leaned over compared to what you are used to. Note that these are not sport bikes, but inexpensive point A to point B commuters built with just about the most inexpensive, reasonable quality components that can be sourced.

If your stock Dunlops are the same that came with my bike they would be Trail Scorpions, which are a good tire. I switched to the PR4s when the Dunlops wore out and thought they were "ok" but nothing special. Maybe I ride too slow or something but I didn't really notice much difference at all between the Scorpions and the PR4s, especially when going around a normal corner at 40ish mph.

I'm starting to think about half of all suspension/tire improvement tweaks are in the rider's mind ;-)

If you still think you have wobble issues I would bring the bike to a reputable shop and have them check for prior damage. Maybe the bike was dropped at one point. A simple drop in a parking lot can tweak something out of alignment, it doesn't have to be an actual "crash". Get that checked, even if all it does is eliminate one possible source of the problem.

Hope you get it sorted out..an ill handling motorcycle isn't going to be any fun.

 

[drstimpy]

+1 on the tires. Tar snakes were the worst and I don't notice them on pr4.


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[rippin209]

+2 on the tires. Check your air pressure. I have had PR4's installed for over a year and I can lean almost down to the side cases when going fast enough and still be steady on the drop in and pulling out (nice and smooth) I'm riding on stock suspension if on a budget try a different fork oil/viscosity

 

[Inked469]

+2 on the tires. Check your air pressure. I have had PR4's installed for over a year and I can lean almost down to the side cases when going fast enough and still be steady on the drop in and pulling out (nice and smooth) I'm riding on stock suspension if on a budget try a different fork oil/viscosity

Yeah that was my thoughts too. I fully understand this is a differnt beast then I've had before. Tires are next on the to do list. I just want to get what life I can out of dunlops. If I'm going to mess with fork oil in gonna do the gold valves as well!


2014 nc700x -Rox risers-22in madstad-barkbuster storms.

 

[Inked469]

Unless you have worn tires or the bike was damaged I think you nailed it.

Most cruisers have such weird geometry that they really don't like to turn too easily. Not sure what you mean by a liter-bike since that is an engine size and not too descriptive but my guess is that the motorcycle probably had much better suspension components on it than any NC ever had.

So yes, they are both entirely different in the way they steer than the NC.

Then, toss in an almost 2 foot tall sheet of plastic mounted to your bike and I can see where it might seem a bit squirrelly at 40 mph when leaned over compared to what you are used to. Note that these are not sport bikes, but inexpensive point A to point B commuters built with just about the most inexpensive, reasonable quality components that can be sourced.

If your stock Dunlops are the same that came with my bike they would be Trail Scorpions, which are a good tire. I switched to the PR4s when the Dunlops wore out and thought they were "ok" but nothing special. Maybe I ride too slow or something but I didn't really notice much difference at all between the Scorpions and the PR4s, especially when going around a normal corner at 40ish mph.

I'm starting to think about half of all suspension/tire improvement tweaks are in the rider's mind ;-)

If you still think you have wobble issues I would bring the bike to a reputable shop and have them check for prior damage. Maybe the bike was dropped at one point. A simple drop in a parking lot can tweak something out of alignment, it doesn't have to be an actual "crash". Get that checked, even if all it does is eliminate one possible source of the problem.

Hope you get it sorted out..an ill handling motorcycle isn't going to be any fun.

No crash here unless the dealer dropped it.


2014 nc700x -Rox risers-22in madstad-barkbuster storms.

 

[DCTFAN]

Unless you have worn tires or the bike was damaged I think you nailed it.

Most cruisers have such weird geometry that they really don't like to turn too easily. Not sure what you mean by a liter-bike since that is an engine size and not too descriptive but my guess is that the motorcycle probably had much better suspension components on it than any NC ever had.

So yes, they are both entirely different in the way they steer than the NC.

Then, toss in an almost 2 foot tall sheet of plastic mounted to your bike and I can see where it might seem a bit squirrelly at 40 mph when leaned over compared to what you are used to. Note that these are not sport bikes, but inexpensive point A to point B commuters built with just about the most inexpensive, reasonable quality components that can be sourced.

If your stock Dunlops are the same that came with my bike they would be Trail Scorpions, which are a good tire. I switched to the PR4s when the Dunlops wore out and thought they were "ok" but nothing special. Maybe I ride too slow or something but I didn't really notice much difference at all between the Scorpions and the PR4s, especially when going around a normal corner at 40ish mph.

I'm starting to think about half of all suspension/tire improvement tweaks are in the rider's mind ;-)

If you still think you have wobble issues I would bring the bike to a reputable shop and have them check for prior damage. Maybe the bike was dropped at one point. A simple drop in a parking lot can tweak something out of alignment, it doesn't have to be an actual "crash". Get that checked, even if all it does is eliminate one possible source of the problem.

Hope you get it sorted out..an ill handling motorcycle isn't going to be any fun.

I've ridden with more experienced riders on the NC in the twisties, including the Dragon;
and the NC turns like it's on rails at speeds well below/above 40 mph, between the knees of a skilled rider.
There was an earlier post describing the NC on track day and all was good.

So, IMO, there is something wrong with the bike's front end or you need to adjust the suspension a bit.

 

[Inked469]

I've ridden with more experienced riders on the NC in the twisties, including the Dragon;
and the NC turns like it's on rails at speeds well below/above 40 mph, between the knees of a skilled rider.
There was an earlier post describing the NC on track day and all was good.

So, IMO, there is something wrong with the bike's front end or you need to adjust the suspension a bit.

Adjustments are forth coming. Need to read up on what adjustments I need to make. It does handle quite well 95% of the time. But that small amount messes with my head.


2014 nc700x -Rox risers-22in madstad-barkbuster storms.

 

[rippin209]

Yeah that was my thoughts too. I fully understand this is a differnt beast then I've had before. Tires are next on the to do list. I just want to get what life I can out of dunlops. If I'm going to mess with fork oil in gonna do the gold valves as well!


2014 nc700x -Rox risers-22in madstad-barkbuster storms.

I don't know how mechanically inclined you are but changing the fork oil is easier then you might think but tires are going to make the biggest difference. If you don't feel steady or safe on them I would pull them off and save them for spares and get some tires you feel more confident with, if you stick to pavement I would recommend Michelin PR4's

 

[Inked469]

I don't know how mechanically inclined you are but changing the fork oil is easier then you might think but tires are going to make the biggest difference. If you don't feel steady or safe on them I would pull them off and save them for spares and get some tires you feel more confident with, if you stick to pavement I would recommend Michelin PR4's

Changing the fork oil is no problem for me. Yes she's a road queen.


2014 nc700x -Rox risers-22in madstad-barkbuster storms.

 

[supertux1]

I have PR4's, RaceTech Valve, RaceTech spring and preload adjustable fork caps.
(I haven't done anything to the rear shock yet.)

As others have said, try changing your tire first. The stock ones wear fast, square off and then get squirrelly in turns when you ride on and off that ridge. Mine lasted 6xxx some miles and really should have been changed at 5000. Honda didn't want to raise the price / lose $200, so you got a crap tire. Sorry, budget bike. Just changing tires makes it night and day.

If after that you find you want more improvement, go with the RaceTech Valve, spring and preload adjust. Get the proper spring and sag for YOUR weight. It's like going from a one size fits all setup to one just for you. They're a bit more complicated to install but I did it without ever removing a fork before. (And you don't have to mess with seals or bushings etc...)

 

[wingysataday]

I have mine set up for dual sporting and the suspension is way to stiff for off road. I feel like I'm riding on a pogo stick. I'm wondering if the prior owner switched out the fork spring for stiffer ones?