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Lithium Battery?

5 year warranty tells a lot! But obviously they will not cover you if you let the battery to drop bellow 9V or you've a faulty charging system.

(I can't open the link)
 
670cc said:
I know they sure are light weight. When you pick one up it just feels like an empty plastic case!

The OEM Yuasa is over a hundred bucks so the lithium price isn't terribly out of line if they last longer. Still, I get maybe 8 years out of lead acid batteries so that would be hard to beat.
Click to expand...

I had to purchase a Yuasa battery from the dealer for my ST1300 4-years ago for about $170. This battery is starting to show it's age on occasion, the gauges will "Reset" themselves because the battery voltage drops real low during cranking over. I will soon be in the market looking for a new one.

I have been looking at the lithium at the last couple of shows I went to, gathering information about these batteries. I have a Scorpion Battery waiting on the shelf waiting to be put into the bike once I feel the Yuasa is ready for the recycler. Lithium will be my next one for either of my bikes. The NC700X uses the same battery as the ST1300 does.
 
I had a Shorai in my F800. The OEM battery tie down will not fit, so I fabricated a light duty tie down, since the battery is so light.
The F800 battery sits very high in the frame so the lighter unit is a real plus on an already light bike; curb weight, 450#.

When voltages goes below 9V, it was a hassle getting the Shorai charger to reboot. At one point it would not and they shipped me a new one for $50.
Weight savings is the only real advantage, IMO for lithium. CCA and longevity are similar, IMO regardless of what they say.

The NC battery sits relatively low and I suspect very close to the CG, so I probably will stick to the OEM unit when the time comes for replacement.

An ST13 is a very heavy bike but w/the ZR rated (BS) tires can drive into a corner much harder then an F800 because the tires will grip better
w/the added weight. Its battery is right at the CG so I would not spend the extra money on a lighter battery for that bike.

One model of Victory has the battery to the R/H side of the HEADLIGHT. Now that bike needs a lithium battery!!
 
If you let a LFP bellow 9V, you kill it. There's no way to resurrect it...

CCA and longevity are not similar.

CCA (refered as PbEq CCA) has no meaning for LFP. It's arbitrary used by many manufacturers. Due to its low resistance, they can give you all the charge in a moment! (Peukert's law has no application here!). A very small LFP battery (compared to an AGM) may start even a truck! You can't compare AGM and LFP in terms of power!

Longevity of lead-acid is about 500-800 cycles, while in LFP is much longer, about 2,000 cycles.

I explain everything at the beginning of the thread...
 
Ive thought about using an LFP battery with a diode that is bypassed by the starter relay, along with a lower current lithium battery that has low voltage protection to run everything else. Then if you left headlights or something on, you wouldn't kill a battery.
 
Just buy one with a built-in BMS... (And a LFP compatible charger, to reset it). I diode will not help you. You've to monitor battery's voltage to disconnect it automatically.
 
Are there any with bms that have the current to juice a starter?

Diode would be to allow charging, but only discharging by starter relay. Might accomplish the same thing by having a separate charging circuit and isolating the starter relay. A second battery with bms would run everything else. Totally overkill, but it's an idea.
 
The batteries with protection circuitry on the discharge that I've seen, that have over-discharge protection, are also limited to a lower current than what is needed by a starter motor.

I'm saying that what you suggest would be great, but can you point me toward a battery that has bms/low voltage protection and puts out more than 30 amps? I'm not sure how many amps our starter draws, but I'd guess it's at least 60 on a cold day.

I would probably be fine without protection circuitry, but I just hate to spend so much on a battery that can be killed by leaving something on or by a parasitic drain.

Update: found this one http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aliant11-13047.php

I was thinking that a protection circuit to handle 200 amps would be more expensive than the battery.
 
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No, there is no such problem with starter LFP batteries, like EarthX, etc.

The only problem is that the BMS itself increases the self discharge of the battery.
 
ste7ios said:
No, there is no such problem with starter LFP batteries, like EarthX, etc.

The only problem is that the BMS itself increases the self discharge of the battery.
Click to expand...

My lead replacement battery only lasted less than 9 months (Dealer sold not a Yuasa ). I live in Texas and ride 365 (if no ice or snow, last time real snow 1985) but I want a battery that can take a heated vest, gloves, and some large LED extra lights. Am I going to have issues with the extra drain? With a Kuraykan voltage light gauge
Green L.E.D.’s (2) represent the normal operating range of your charging system, 12.5v to 14.5v. Amber L.E.D.’s (2) warn the rider that the bike is not charging. Red L.E.D.'s (2) will flash if the reading drops below 10v or exceeds 15v to alert the rider of an impending stall or the possibility of damage to the battery &/or sensitive electronic gear.

With heated gear most of the time I see 2 green leds but sometimes under 2000 rpm I see 1 green with two amber only when with the heated gear and at a stop with led lights (stop {large led cluster} and {animated leds} turn signal going). Rarely would it ever drop to 1 amber led, in fact I can't remember it ever except when I have the ignition on and sitting for a minute or two with out engine running.

Just looking for a safety valve so I do not damage it by too much draw ..... Maybe you should bill me for your comments.. :)

Thanks for the education so far, really helpful.

Boz
 
9 months!!! it can be defective...

NC's alternator can provide 420 W at 3,000 - 5,000 rpm. It should be enough according to other owners. Sorry, I can't tell you for sure without some real world testing. There's no time and money for that :(

Try to keep the consumption to a minimal. But you can to turn everything off just about 10' before your destination to charge a LFP up to 80%!

I never liked gauges like this, they're not accurate. Every battery has different readings. (e.g. Yuasa, Varta gives 13.0V when fully charged w/sulfation stop, other Pb 12.8V, LFP 13.6 V). Just install a voltmeter like Kosso mini3 to monitor the charging system, and a plain voltmeter to check your battery. (It would be a nice idea if you keep a log for some time).

More about battery readings at a later time. :)
 
ste7ios said:
9 months!!! it can be defective...

NC's alternator can provide 420 W at 3,000 - 5,000 rpm. It should be enough according to other owners. Sorry, I can't tell you for sure without some real world testing. There's no time and money for that :(

Try to keep the consumption to a minimal. But you can to turn everything off just about 10' before your destination to charge a LFP up to 80%!

I never liked gauges like this, they're not accurate. Every battery has different readings. (e.g. Yuasa, Varta gives 13.0V when fully charged w/sulfation stop, other Pb 12.8V, LFP 13.6 V). Just install a voltmeter like Kosso mini3 to monitor the charging system, and a plain voltmeter to check your battery. (It would be a nice idea if you keep a log for some time).

More about battery readings at a later time. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks, you gave me a good answer, and a great idea. I had the led meter from some gift purchase for my GoldWing and it never has battery problems, but it produces 1100 watts so every 6 years I just replace the gel battery for grins and it never has not started. My only problem with the Wing is the operator hitting the shut off switch... :-(

I'm going to see how soon I can get a AntiGravity battery shipped and use the backup battery (original I replaced when I shorted my stator). The stator is producing fine as I thought it could be failing due to my shorting it out when I had the original battery installed. Yeah if not careful when you put the front sprocket cover back on (was just checking the sprocket at 2800 miles) and pinched the cable against the frame .... It was an easy fix for the dealer to find and fix. I was draining a battery in less than 100 miles and the voltage off the battery was < 11 volts. They tested the stator and it was fine but said to install a meter as it may fail sooner than expected (no history or idea how long they last in the dealer chain and a $500.00 replacement). It has been working fine (based upon meter) for over 13000 miles beyond the fix and my VOM shows > 13 v at 2500 rpm. Anyway thanks for all the help and the great exposition on the non-lead Lithium Battery, and good luck on getting that mind working on network problems again.

Just a curiosity are the networks in Greece M$ enterprise or Linux/Unix based now days. I remember with one of my students/friend that installed a first Greek keyboarded XT system in a hotel for the dept. of Tourism in 82-83. He loved Greece and the people as they treated him and his wife super great in the 6 months he was there. Had fun stories of the difficulties to get backup batteries systems and generators through the myriad of customs and families that owned the few computer outlets at that time. He had planned to only be there a month and took his wife so they could spend weekends touring Greece. One month ended up almost 6 months but he came back a much larger person in several avenues, one because of the wonderful food the others due to the wonderful people and customs of Greece. I haven't seen him in years as he has been working in WA for over 15 years.

Thanks again for the help, may the Holidays bring cheer and more.

Boz
 
My Yuasa now is 2 1/2 years in service now. Maybe I should replace it? No, if it is not broke don't fix it! Fixing before broke consumes riding time!

Yuasa YTZ12S.jpg
 
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Well glad yours is not broken but mine does not take a trickle charge well. It took all night for the trickle charger (tender JR.) to take from 12.49 to 14.50 and keep the green light on. I haven't run heated gear in last month and the led voltage indicator has been 2 green leds all the time. The wing even on short ride takes only 2 - 3 min to go from blinking red to full green on same trickle charger. Felt the connector may have been not 100% so used the alligator clips from charger and same issues but the original Yuasa, been sitting for 7 months on shelf made full green in 20 min.... As long as replacing a battery I'd rather try something new and more powerful. One nice benefit of the X over the DL650 I had was the 450 vs 320 watt stator output. Running a mobile ham radio and emergency lights on the DL650 was almost impossible without the motor running at high idle at all times. The X has no issues even when engine off for 30+ minutes, the DL650 would need a jump for sure. My stator output at idle is maintaining a 14.10 V on the battery so I do not think it is my stator.
 
gboswellsac said:
Well glad yours is not broken but mine does not take a trickle charge well. It took all night for the trickle charger (tender JR.) to take from 12.49 to 14.50 and keep the green light on.
Click to expand...

A Battery Tender Jr. will charge at a maximum of only 0.750 amps. If you have a "good" 11 AH battery that is 1/2 discharged you will need to put over 5.5 amps back into it, which will take over 7.3 hours to charge back to full capacity. A "weak" or "bad" battery under the same conditions will charge very quickly as it will have a lower usable AH capacity. Taking a longer time to charge on a charger is usually a good thing, unless the battery has a shorted cell or other somewhat rare issues.

Charles
 
wa5vhu said:
A Battery Tender Jr. will charge at a maximum of only 0.750 amps. If you have a "good" 11 AH battery that is 1/2 discharged you will need to put over 5.5 amps back into it, which will take over 7.3 hours to charge back to full capacity. A "weak" or "bad" battery under the same conditions will charge very quickly as it will have a lower usable AH capacity. Taking a longer time to charge on a charger is usually a good thing, unless the battery has a shorted cell or other somewhat rare issues.

Charles
Click to expand...

Thanks, maybe mine is not broke ..... but then my Wing only takes 2 - 3 minutes .... I'm getting a volt meter (with digital output) for both of them. I'm not disagreeing but with either bike when I come in after a run short or long I've plugged in a JR. and they have taken less than 5 min to have full green on tender and the X has been lighting up 2 green leds (13.5-14.5 v) on the led volt meter so X should not have been down to 12.5 last night. I may have bigger problems than I understand. Maybe the digital volt meters will help me figure this out. Thanks for the input.

Boz
 
Sealed batteries have always taken longer to charge than the good old screw open the top batteries. Don't ask me why, because I can not explain it, I just know they do. I have a multi unit Christie charger that Honda requires the dealership to use, and sealed batteries take longer even on the Christie charger.
 
Old Can Ride said:
Sealed batteries have always taken longer to charge than the good old screw open the top batteries. Don't ask me why, because I can not explain it, I just know they do. I have a multi unit Christie charger that Honda requires the dealership to use, and sealed batteries take longer even on the Christie charger.
Click to expand...
Because high current produces lots of gases. In that case they will be released from the valve of a VRLA battery, and it's impossible to replenish the lost water. In a traditional wet battery this is not a problem!
 
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