Wrong Oil

Forty Two

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I purchased my 2020 NC750X DCT last month. Since the beginning it felt like there was a bit of a chattering when I accelerate. This is especially noticeable when the tranny and engine are working hard as when I accelerate up a hill. Since I do not really have a frame of reference, at first I thought maybe it was just the tires or bike breaking in.

I just got the bike back from its first 1000km service. My intention was just to take it to the dealer for the first service and check and then I will do the subsequent maintenances myself. I told them about the chattering and that it almost feels like something is slipping. They tested it and said they do not feel anything wrong.

I noticed today that they used the wrong oil they used 10 40 and the manual indicates 10 30 should be used. I contacted them and they are "investigating."

In the meantime, could the wrong oil be the problem and source of the chattering? They could have put the wrong oil in when they put the bike together from its shipping container as well. Has anyone else accidentally put the wrong oil in and what happened? Will this cause long-term issues?
 

670cc

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While the owner’s manual does indeed specify 10w-30 as the recomended oil viscosity, the NC700X official Honda service manual states that either 10w-30 or 10w-40 are acceptable viscosities for most temperature ranges. I see no reason the 750 would differ from the 700. 10w-40 is OK.

Now hopefully they installed the correct oil, meeting the JASO and API requirements shown in the owner’s manual. Do you know exactly what brand and type oil was installed?

I have used both 10w-30 and 10w-40 interchangeably and cannot tell the difference in the motorcycle’s behavior.

I will add that the “chattering” you experience under load is likely normal behavior for this 270 degree crank twin cylinder engine, and there is nothing wrong with it. Forget it and enjoy the motorcycle. Manually downshift, or use DCT sport modes that allow higher revs if you dislike the “chattering” under load.

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Forty Two

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While the owner’s manual does indeed specify 10w-30 as the recomended oil viscosity, the NC700X official Honda service manual states that either 10w-30 or 10w-40 are acceptable viscosities for most temperature ranges. I see no reason the 750 would differ from the 700. 10w-40 is OK.

Now hopefully they installed the correct oil, meeting the JASO and SAE requirements shown in the owner’s manual. Do you know exactly what brand and type oil was installed?

I have used both 10w-30 and 10w-40 interchangeably and cannot tell the difference in the motorcycle’s behavior.

I will add that the “chattering” you experience under load is likely normal behavior for this 270 degree crank twin cylinder engine, and there is nothing wrong with it. Forget it and enjoy the motorcycle. Manually downshift, or use DCT sport modes that allow higher revs if you dislike the “chattering” under load.

View attachment 42425
20200709_152306.jpg
 

Forty Two

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This is what is on the receipt.

As for the chattering, I do notice it less when it is in S mode.

Thank you for your answer.
 

670cc

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As a side note, finding 10w-30 oil with the correct JASO spec is a bit difficult among non-Honda oil brands. 10w-40 seems easier to obtain, and that really is the only reason I use it on occasion. It’s not that I prefer one over the other for any other reason.
 
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Forty Two

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Honda GN4 10w-40 is acceptable oil for the NC750X.

As a side note, finding 10w-30 oil with the correct JASO spec is a bit difficult among non-Honda oil brands. 10w-40 seems easier to obtain, and that really is the only reason I use it on occasion. It’s not that I prefer one over the other for any other reason.
I read that the 10 40 is too thick for the DCT. Is this not the case?
 

670cc

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I read that the 10 40 is too thick for the DCT. Is this not the case?
I’m curious; where did you read that?

Apparently Honda doesn’t think so, according to the service manual. The manual I showed a picture of is for both manual and automatic transmissions.

If you would feel better with 10w-30, just change it now and don’t go back to that dealer. Oil is cheap.
 

Forty Two

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I cannot find where I found that particular instance, but I just searched and noticed a few mentions of other people saying they noticed a difference.
 

Forty Two

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I’m curious; where did you read that?

Apparently Honda doesn’t think so, according to the service manual. The manual I showed a picture of is for both manual and automatic transmissions.

If you would feel better with 10w-30, just change it now and don’t go back to that dealer. Oil is cheap.
I am happy, though, to find out that at least there should not be long-term damage.
 

dduelin

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The Honda manual is what you should go by. 10w40 GN4 is OK to use and will not cause chattering, slipping, or excessive vibrations. 10w30 is the primary recommendation but 10w40 is also recommended.
 

Janus

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I will add that the “chattering” you experience under load is likely normal behavior for this 270 degree crank twin cylinder engine, and there is nothing wrong with it. Forget it and enjoy the motorcycle. Manually downshift, or use DCT sport modes that allow higher revs if you dislike the “chattering” under load.
Interesting. I've noticed a handful of times this chatter at lower revs. What exactly is happening to cause the noise?

I've been curious about it but thought the issue might be unique to my bike. I haven't had it on my single thumper or V-twin.
 

Forty Two

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Interesting. I've noticed a handful of times this chatter at lower revs. What exactly is happening to cause the noise?

I've been curious about it but thought the issue might be unique to my bike. I haven't had it on my single thumper or V-twin.
It seems to happen when I accelerate, especially if the bike is working hard, such as going up a hill. For a lack of better explanation, it almost felt like the bike was going on big nubby tires when I first noticed it. But it is not the tires, but coming from the engine. It feels like something is slipping. When the load is off and I am up the hill or done accelerating it seems to go away.
 

670cc

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It seems to happen when I accelerate, especially if the bike is working hard, such as going up a hill. For a lack of better explanation, it almost felt like the bike was going on big nubby tires when I first noticed it. But it is not the tires, but coming from the engine. It feels like something is slipping. When the load is off and I am up the hill or done accelerating it seems to go away.
Yep. That is exactly how this bike behaves. Shift down for higher revs to smooth out the engine when it’s under heavy load.
 
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TigerDude

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I tend to ride at 3000 rpm and up to avoid this feeling. I would've thought it wasn't an issue on DCT's tho. The bike should downshift itself under load. As said earlier, maybe the stock shift points are fuel efficiency-based.

Low RPM and high load is the worst lubrication condition for engines' journal bearings (like the mains). The lubrication equation (film thickness) has rpm on the top and load on the bottom, plus with positive displacement oil pumps (like basically all engines have) the pressure at the pump goes up with rpm. That said, I trust Honda implicitly to build engines that won't have a problem with this no matter how I ride the bike.
 

Janus

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It seems to happen when I accelerate, especially if the bike is working hard, such as going up a hill. For a lack of better explanation, it almost felt like the bike was going on big nubby tires when I first noticed it. But it is not the tires, but coming from the engine. It feels like something is slipping. When the load is off and I am up the hill or done accelerating it seems to go away.
Yeah I understand the conditions in which it occurs, but I was hoping to learn what is happening inside the engine to produce the sound and vibration.

I'm a nerd like that. I guess it's off to YouTube University for me
 

Forty Two

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Yeah I understand the conditions in which it occurs, but I was hoping to learn what is happening inside the engine to produce the sound and vibration.

I'm a nerd like that. I guess it's off to YouTube University for me
I would love to know as well. It feels like something is slipping. I did notice when I down shifted manually when it started to chatter it seemed to lessen. Then I switched to S2 mode instead of my usual S1 and that made it much better as well.
 

Forty Two

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I tend to ride at 3000 rpm and up to avoid this feeling. I would've thought it wasn't an issue on DCT's tho. The bike should downshift itself under load. As said earlier, maybe the stock shift points are fuel efficiency-based.

Low RPM and high load is the worst lubrication condition for engines' journal bearings (like the mains). The lubrication equation (film thickness) has rpm on the top and load on the bottom, plus with positive displacement oil pumps (like basically all engines have) the pressure at the pump goes up with rpm. That said, I trust Honda implicitly to build engines that won't have a problem with this no matter how I ride the bike.
I will not lie. I do not completely understand what you wrote :) but what I do understand it makes sense.
 

Griff

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Low RPM and high load is the worst lubrication condition for engines' journal bearings (like the mains). The lubrication equation (film thickness) has rpm on the top and load on the bottom, plus with positive displacement oil pumps (like basically all engines have) the pressure at the pump goes up with rpm. That said, I trust Honda implicitly to build engines that won't have a problem with this no matter how I ride the bike.

I would tend to agree with that assessment. I hate lugging an engine low down in the rev range under a heavy handed throttle albeit this is a long stroke motor which is probably designed to cope. For that reason I rarely ride in D mode. The rest of the time I am in S1 with manual shifting where desired. Thinking back, I cannot remember when I last rode in D mode.
 

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