Working the gears in turns at intersections - NCX vs other manual bikes

[Mukiwa]

Hi

I've been commuting with my NCX manual for 3 years and it's been my only bike since returning from scramblers during my student days (some 20+ years ago). During my commute I'm finding it necessary to change into into second almost immediately after pull away to keep up with traffic. This means I'm changing gears in the middle of turns at intersections, which to me is a safety issue that is unavoidable on the NCX.

I would like to know how this "gear changing issue" compares with other similarly displaced bikes, since I have not had much time on other manual bikes. I only briefly rode a Triumph Tiger 800 in Vegas and I was able to negotiate wide turns at intersections in traffic without changing into second.

Thanks

 

[Ed Up]

I've not noticed this being a problem, but I have rode many years with no breaks. I don't feel it's a safety issue shifting up in a turn, but down shifting in a turn could be a real issue, depending on experience.

 

[670cc]

I can't speak for other models similar in size to the NC, but I can say whether it's my old Ninja 250 or my current GL1800 Goldwing, they all have you shifting gears before you cross the intersection. Shifting is a normal process of riding; I respect your concern but I don't see it as a safety issue.

The NC has the grunt to pull way from a stop in second gear. That would be a way to avoid the first shift.

 

[drdubb]

On my dct I might be in 4th by the time I clear an intersection.

 

[Nebo]

hi, similar engine sized bikes are similar, I just stepped off a SV650 and got the NC700s.
Same thing except different revs.
4k in first is the same a 6k in first on that one.= 40km/h. If you are stopped at lights I dont see how you could be going that fast by the other side of the road. If you meant turning while still rolling, yes i tend to select 2nd for 90 degree turns but the nc will pull away easier. My old sport bike was revving in, (engine braking) and revving out. this one cruises into corner and accelerates out.
Is what I like about the NC accelerate, hear the motor, change up. She tells you when it is time, so quiet at 3k, noisy at 4k, saying...what are you doing? at 5k.

 

[Hati]

I dont see how you could be going that fast by the other side of the road.

They (in the U.S.) can have VERY large (by our standards) intersections. They do drive big tanks, I mean trucks, over there

 

[dduelin]

Hi

I've been commuting with my NCX manual for 3 years and it's been my only bike since returning from scramblers during my student days (some 20+ years ago). During my commute I'm finding it necessary to change into into second almost immediately after pull away to keep up with traffic. This means I'm changing gears in the middle of turns at intersections, which to me is a safety issue that is unavoidable on the NCX.

I would like to know how this "gear changing issue" compares with other similarly displaced bikes, since I have not had much time on other manual bikes. I only briefly rode a Triumph Tiger 800 in Vegas and I was able to negotiate wide turns at intersections in traffic without changing into second.

Thanks

The Triumph 800 has a very tall first gear and doesn't a good comparison to the NC700 or any other mid displacement bike. The 800 can do about 60 mph in first gear - the NC700 about 35. Most bikes I've owned are shifted to 2nd before getting across a wide intersection.

 

[drdubb]

They (in the U.S.) can have VERY large (by our standards) intersections. They do drive big tanks, I mean trucks, over there

"BroDozers"

 

[randypower]

I shift into second from stops at intersections but it is comfortable. In city intersections, I usually move through in second which feels perfect for the NC.

In contrast, on my Yamaha VStar 1300, I sometimes can't decide whether to be in first or second, depending on the speed. It has much taller gears (and only 5) for comparison to the NC.

 

[Deleted member 1183]

I have other bikes so I swap between them from time to time. They are all foot shift with clutch. They all have different gear ratios and power characteristics. Tbh I never even think about gear changes on any of them. I am trying to figure out your angle on this subject but I am having difficulty. I do not see any problem with shifting mid turn, either up or down. I can only suggest replicating the situation in an empty car park and practicing until you no longer have to think about it.

 

[SergeantChuck]

I don't notice an issue just as others have mentioned and I'm really having to think about when I shift to second. I honestly do not pay attention. I shift when it feels right and that may or may not be in a corner. I guess it could be an issues on wet roads while shifting down. If you shift down too soon the engine braking might allow the rear tire to break free. That is a big MIGHT. Otherwise, on dry pavement, I can't see it being a problem.

I'm willing to bet I shift in corners but maybe I wait until right before the bike is starting to stand back up. That is, prior to being straight up and down but while I'm moving back to the straight up and down position. Regardless, I don't think it is an issue.

 

[ste7ios]

In general you don't want to destabilize the bike, especially in a turn. The ideal is to have the right speed and the right gear at the beginning of the turn to enable you to transfer the weight to the rear wheel with 0.1G or 0.2G (keeping the 40/60 front/rear weight transfer ratio) throughout the turn.

Changing gears in a turn may destabilize the bike and loose grip because it cuts the power to the wheel and the weight is transferred to the front (even if it's a perfect change).

Seamless gearboxes / DCTs doesn't have this problem at this extend because there is much less dead time between changes and the power transfer is smoother during changes.

 

[davidc83]

Around here, people turn so slow at intersections I usually have to get off the throttle before I have to upshift to 2nd gear, and 1st gear doesn't have to upshift to 2nd gear until 25-30mph (as compared to all my other bikes, which are all under 20mph); by the time I have to upshift to 2nd gear, usually the turn at an intersection is already completed...

 

[Brillot2000]

On my dct I might be in 4th by the time I clear an intersection.

You must be in "D-Mode" then.

I use "S-Mode" over 90% of the time. I like the responsiveness when I have to crack the throttle quickly. The motor revs are more where I want them when on city streets or in the twisties...

Getting back to the concern at hand:

I sometimes find my bike shifting in the middle of a turn from time to time. I have remdied that by using the "+ & -" paddles before coming into a turn and then throttle through the turn.

 

[drdubb]

You must be in "D-Mode" then.

I use "S-Mode" over 90% of the time. I like the responsiveness when I have to crack the throttle quickly. The motor revs are more where I want them when on city streets or in the twisties...

Getting back to the concern at hand:

I sometimes find my bike shifting in the middle of a turn from time to time. I have remdied that by using the "+ & -" paddles before coming into a turn and then throttle through the turn.

I very seldom use S mode. That's for the twisties. Despite the NC being a commuter bike, I avoid city riding like the plague.

 

[pconn]

Shifting in turns is not, in and of itself, a safety issue. In fact, smooth acceleration through a corner is considered an essential aspect of making safe, efficient turns, and if you're accelerating you'll probably need to upshift. So in my view, it's not unusual or unsafe at all to upshift as you're making a turn. The key is that your shifting be quick and smooth so as not to upset the stability or smooth acceleration of the bike. I qualify all this by saying that at any given time and situation, the road and traffic conditions may require a different technique.

 

[SergeantChuck]

Despite the NC being a commuter bike, I avoid city riding like the plague.

Your missing out. LOL! It is one of the biggest reasons I love this bike. The city riding. Makes it much easier. I don't have a choice though so I don't blame you.

 

[L.B.S.]

Hi

I've been commuting with my NCX manual for 3 years and it's been my only bike since returning from scramblers during my student days (some 20+ years ago). During my commute I'm finding it necessary to change into into second almost immediately after pull away to keep up with traffic. This means I'm changing gears in the middle of turns at intersections, which to me is a safety issue that is unavoidable on the NCX.

I would like to know how this "gear changing issue" compares with other similarly displaced bikes, since I have not had much time on other manual bikes. I only briefly rode a Triumph Tiger 800 in Vegas and I was able to negotiate wide turns at intersections in traffic without changing into second.

Thanks

What is your rpm at in first gear when you find it necessary to change up to 2nd? Are changing gear because you think you have to, or are you actually hitting the rev limiter?

IMHO, I don't think you need to be making a sharp enough turn through an intersection at redline in first gear or substantially faster in 2nd gear, to have to worry that it's a "safety issue". If you are simply changing up at 4 or 5 thousand rpm, I wouldn't bother. Just hold that rpm until back upright enough to feel comfortable. It isn't going to hurt anything staying at higher revs if you are truly hesitant about shifting while leaned over.

How many intersections are you needing to do this at? Surely you don't have to make a break neck race shift hard turn at every single intersection, with cars trying to run you down from behind. Man, if that were the case I would suggest changing your route if at all possible, to avoid these. Maybe three rights instead of a left, type of thing. I do that at intersections I'm particularly nervous about where the sight lines are really bad, or it's a known high accident place because of whatever factors.


After three years of practice, you should have developed enough skill to be very smooth when letting the clutch out after a shift, if traction is at all compromised like smaller contact patch via being leaned over, or downshifting on a sketchy surface, carrying a passenger, etc.

I strongly suggest taking something like a motorcycle riding course to refresh your basic skills, or pick the brains of instructors at a more advanced MSF type of deal and get more tips and practice. I'm sure it would be money well spent. Sometimes self taught skills can inadvertently reinforce the not quite correct way to do something, and it's a psychological hurdle to get over, with no other external input.

Not meaning to harsh or anything, trust me lol! I have a 13 hp CBR125R with shortened gearing, meaning I hit 11,000 rpm before I get very far past the first crosswalk on a determined launch. It's really, really rare for me to worry at all about keeping up with traffic, and if it ever is, a quick shift into second is no big deal and certainly not a safety issue doing it during a turn.

 

[Mukiwa]

L.B.S. et al.

Thanks for your all your contributions.

We have pretty wide intersections here in Salt Lake City, and yes perhaps “safety issue” may be a bit too strong a term. And BTW, I completed MSF course as a refresher before I bought the bike, but would like to do the advanced MSF course if I can find the time. I find myself changing into second almost immediately after pull away without thinking, whether I’m turning or not. So it’s not really something I think about but was curious weather this was the same for other similarly displaced bikes, but with a higher rev range. Which I think has been answered. Thanks

However, the process of changing gears should in theory slow the acceleration momentarily, which could be a concern if you’re taking chances with oncoming traffic on an LH turn. Not that I do! This is where I believe the DCT transmission should shine, try beating the speed of the DCT gear changes manually, good luck. I remember reading a motor journalist opinions (back in 2012?) that he believed the NC700X’s engine configuration was designed to accommodate a DCT foremost rather than “manual first and let’s add a DCT”. I think it was a long term review report on the NCX.

Despite this curiosity, I like my bike and very happy with the purchase after 3 years. In fact the bike is so well built it makes an excellent bike for touring in let’s say less-developed countries, since it is so straight forward mechanically and the low revving engine should last forever. Cheers

 

[kingsqueak]

To the OP I know what you mean. My old KLR had me shifting into second in mid turn from a stop all the time. Add my poor clutch control and crap fueling issues on my bike and it made me hate that bike. The TE610 I had after that was a world better in that regard.

It's one of the reasons I'm here, the DCT I think may help with my years long lack of left side coordination.

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